Ebay - Paypal Payment Reversed

sweetlittlethoughts

I am wondering if anyone can help me...

I sold a brand new phone on ebay and the buyer paid via paypal - but i don't think they put it through as an ebay purchase - i think it was just a payment or something along those lines... and so i sent the item recorded delivery. The buyer has now recieved their item and left me positive feedback, and i also left positive feedback.
Paypal then decided to reverse the payment which means they took the money out of my account and gave it back to the buyer...without even giving me a reason or anything. All the email said was...

We've concluded our investigation into the transaction detailed below.
Because you did not meet the eligibility requirements for the PayPal Seller
Protection Policy, you will be charged for this reversed transaction.
We've returned the funds to the PayPal account holder. Your account will be debited for the amount of this transaction.

So i've emailed paypal who basically say there is nothing i can do - and still give no explanation...and i've emailed ebay...who said to contact paypal..and i've contacted the buyer several times and they are not replying.

So basically i don't have the phone anymore and am £150 down!
Is there anything i can do?! Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks!

SpammyTheSpammer

On the PAYPAL page there is an option to raise a PAYPAL complaint - try that?

soolin

If they say they have concluded their investigation it must follow that there was an original complaint raised.

Check the details again, at least let us know what sort of chargeback it was. We also need to know whether you made any replies, entered any tracking details into paypal, sent to the address that paypal told you to use and also the amount involved. Also, does your tracking show that item was delivered and can you view a signature online.

The amount is important as the rules for proof of delivery vary depending on the amount.

Premier_2

Presumably if they've concluded their investigations, the buyer raised a claim.

Since you presumably failed to respond to that claim you would have lost.
I presume you failed to respond since you write as though the very first you knew of the claim was when paypal informed you you had lost the claim and payment was reversed.
Paypal would have emailed you at the time of the claim being raised. Check your spam filters and spam box for the original emails from paypal.

Once paypal have made their decision and have reversed payment, there really is little paypal can do. They can't reverse a reversal and have no way of getting the money from the buyer.

Your only option, should you wish to follow it, would be to raise a summons against the buyer. But you really need to understand the basis of the paypal claim first before possibly wasting money on a summons.

cyril82

As soolin says it would help if you gave some info on what happened prior to the reversal, did the buyer raise a compliant?

Usually when you get the "we have concluded our investigation" message there was a complaint raised via paypal although i know paypal do sometimes randomly reverse payments as it has happened to me, i think it is some sort of glitch in their system and they never accept any responsibility.

If you did absolutely nothing wrong, and no dispute was raised, or a dispute was raised but you disagree with paypal's decision this is the situation you are in now;

• You sold an item and received payment
• you subsequently supplied the item you sold
• money was taken out of your account without your authorisation and you have been left without your goods or payment

So where does that leave you? well it leaves you owed money, but by who? paypal will tell you to speak to the buyer but he's not replying.

Now what i advise you here is going to split opinion on these boards but this is how i handled these situations back when i sold a lot on ebay.

If the buyer never raised a dispute but paypal reversed the transaction i would pursue paypal for the money as a debt due, the reason being that PAYPAL not the buyer, took your money and disposed of it, Therefore they owe you.

Tell them you did not authorise this reversal and that given the fact the money legally belongs to you and no dispute was raised by the buyer paypal had no reasonable justification in taking your money and therefore effectively stole it and if they do not return your funds you will pursue them via the county court plus costs and expenses.

If a dispute was raised but your goods were not returned you may wish to pursue the buyer directly as he has been blatantly dishonest in seeking the return of his money via paypal while making absolutely no effort to return your goods. You can threaten paypal with a joint court claim against them and the buyer, the buyer being the fraudster who falsely (in your opinion as i don't know the details) instigated a chargeback scam against you and paypal as a co-defendant for facilitating the fraud by making no reasonable attempt to ensure your goods were returned to You(such as asking for a tracking number) before refunding against your will that might, and i stress might, make them help you get back your money.

Above are your legal options, and while it might sound daunting it really isn't, basically someone owes you money, decide who you reasonably think that is and issue a warning of pending legal action then a court claim if that is ignored, if the court agrees they will order the return of your money and grant you certain powers of recovery.

If the court doesn't agree or you just would rather not go the whole legal route then you have one other option, file a complaint with the financial ombudsman, PayPal are covered by the scheme and it costs them £500 just for the privilege of being subject to a complaint i believe, but more importantly the ombudsman service is free and easy to use and they can order the return of your money if they uphold your complaint, although you should expect it to be a long process if you go down this route.

Failing the above, I think your only option is cut your losses.

soolin

The bit that gets me though is the statement "We've concluded our investigation into the transaction detailed below.
Because you did not meet the eligibility requirements for the PayPal Seller
Protection Policy, you will be charged for this reversed transaction."
Without more info it tends to lead to a supposition that the seller somehow missed something vital with htis sale. Obviously the postage method was wrong, and although that 'might' not be a problem if item was under £150 and it shows as delivered one could jump to the conclusion that seller is new and may therefore have overlooked something else.

Therefore I would welcome more info from the OP as i'm sure others would.

If it turns out to be a simple case of a fraudulent chargeback even though delivery can be proved I would be suggesting to the OP that they persue the buyer as well with every single legal avenue open to them.

cyril82

soolin wrote: »

The bit that gets me though is the statement "We've concluded our investigation into the transaction detailed below.
Because you did not meet the eligibility requirements for the PayPal Seller
Protection Policy, you will be charged for this reversed transaction."
Without more info it tends to lead to a supposition that the seller somehow missed something vital with htis sale. Obviously the postage method was wrong, and although that 'might' not be a problem if item was under £150 and it shows as delivered one could jump to the conclusion that seller is new and may therefore have overlooked something else.

Therefore I would welcome more info from the OP as i'm sure others would.

If it turns out to be a simple case of a fraudulent chargeback even though delivery can be proved I would be suggesting to the OP that they persue the buyer as well with every single legal avenue open to them.

I agree with you soolin and i think the op might not have understood the paypal process or may just not have checked his account or email during the dispute process (it happens) but if the outcome was wrong and the op was left without his goods or his money he is owed by someone, it's just a case of deciding who and how best to address it.

sweetlittlethoughts

Nope nothing happened prior to the reversal - there was definatly no claim made from the buyer - and if there was i was most certainly not informed of this. The first thing i heard that anything was wrong was the email from paypal saying 'a payment has been reversed!'

I'm not a new seller and i sent the item recorded delivery, this is the first time anything like this has happened to me though!

Smart_But_Casual

Paypal don't just reverse payments, there must have been a claim opened and escalated or it's a CC company direct chargeback, which paypal would again inform you of.

They maybe modern day !!!!!! Turpin's but even they don't just reverse on the hoof!

cyril82

Smart_But_Casual wrote: »

Paypal don't just reverse payments, there must have been a claim opened and escalated or it's a CC company direct chargeback, which paypal would again inform you of.

They maybe modern day !!!!!! Turpin's but even they don't just reverse on the hoof!

Smart but casual, i'm afraid they do they have done it to me in the past, no claim made by the buyer just an apparent random reversal.

They also did it once prior to an account freeze, reversed 5 payments without any claim being made, one buyer had only paid 20 minutes before the reversal, paypal then went on to demand proof of postage for 5 transactions to remove the account freeze and what do you know, by pure coincidence they requested the proof of postage for the five transactions they reversed, i actually had to make a county court claim in that case to get my money released, so it is well within the realms of possibility with paypal.

SpammyTheSpammer

And generally never see the money again. Recently, however, I had one that took this form: -
We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by thebuyer's bank. A bank reversal can be requested by the bank itself or the bank account holder.

We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until our inquiry is complete.

We are contacting you to learn more about this transaction.

To help in our investigation, please reply with the following
information
within seven calendar days:#. Details about the item you sold
#. The buyer's name and address
#. Whether or not the item has been sent. (If you have not yet sent the
item, please do not send it.)
#. A phone number where you can be reached for more information
#. Any email correspondence you have had with the buyer

If you have already sent the item, please also provide:#. Name of the
delivery service used
#. Date of posting
#. Tracking number

For transactions of $250.00 USD or more, please let us know whether you
would be able to provide a proof-of-receipt in the form of a signature
from
the buyer.

Thank you for your cooperation and assistance.

Yours sincerely,
PayPal

So I sent them all the details and about 10 days later got this: -

Dear SpammyTheSpammer (name changed - duh!)

Thank you for contacting PayPal. We regret the delay in responding to your service request.

Thank you for supplying delivery confirmation tracking information; the transaction qualifies for the PayPal Seller Protection Policy. We have cancelled the temporary hold placed on these funds and they have been released to your PayPal account balance.

Transaction Date: Jun. ??, 2009 hh:mm:ss CDT Transaction Amount: £x.xx GBP Buyer's Email: r.????@sky.com

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and wish you continued success on PayPal.

Sincerely,
Gloria
PayPal, an eBay Company

So I WAS COVERED BY THE SELLER PROTECTION POLICY!

( I keep looking out of the window to see if the pigs are flying past)