Can I dispute a care insurance claim?

[Deleted User]

Hello,

Around 3 months ago I was involved in a very minor incident in which I clipped the wing mirror of a parked car when another car coming the opposite way cross the white line and gave me no room to move.

Although I wasn't 'at fault' in the sense of me not being able to do much about it, it was obviously an 'at fault' claim for insurance purposes.

I reported this to my insurer as per my policy and I took photos of the 'damage' - this amounted to nothing more than a cracked wing mirror (on a 12 year old bashed up Renault Clio) - cost to replace = £7.98 from Halfords.

I've just got my renewal form through and saw that the claim is on there as outstanding - and I just phoned up my insurer (esure) who told me that the claim is now closed.

As part of this, I was told that they paid out £1,196 to the other party!

Now, is there any action I should take at this point?

There is absolutely NO WAY that I caused that amount of damage to the car - the car itself is probably only worth £1k total! What's more, should esure have contacted me to get my side of the story, plus my evidence, or at least to check their claim for the damage?

I know it sounds ridiculous, but I can't even begin to fathom how I've caused that level of damage. At the most I could see them needing a new wing mirror (£70 from our local garage) but £1,196 is more than the value of the car!

Obviously I have to disclose this amount in future renewals, but I think the other drive is completely taking teh p*ss, so is there any opportunity for me to go back to my insurer to dispute the amount and have it reduced?

glider3560

Did you pay for the repair yourself or was it claimed under your insurance?

If an amount was paid out to the third party, your insurance company would have told you about this. Check through all the paperwork they sent you and ask to speak to someone in the claims department if you haven't been made aware of the payment.

lisyloo

this amounted to nothing more than a cracked wing mirror (on a 12 year old bashed up Renault Clio) - cost to replace = £7.98 from Halfords.

Was the mirror electric for movement or electrically heated?
These are more like hundreds of pounds.

As part of this, I was told that they paid out £1,196 to the other party!

I agree, it sounds ludicrous but
Did they have a hire car?
Did they need to take time off work?
Are you sure there was no paintwork scratched that needed painting?

should esure have contacted me to get my side of the story, plus my evidence, or at least to check their claim for the damage?

They should have got your report of the accident.
Did they not ask you what happened?

I know it sounds ridiculous, but I can't even begin to fathom how I've caused that level of damage.

They are entitled to a hire car and time of work if that's what you caused.
Although I agree it sounds OTT for just a mirror especially if there are no electrics.

so is there any opportunity for me to go back to my insurer to dispute the amount and have it reduced?

As it been paid out and agreed then that forms a contract between your insurer and the 3rd party.
The only basis I could see for changing it now would be fraud.
I don't honestly think you have enough evidence to allege fraud because you don't know the breakdown of the costs.

However you could make a complaint to your insurer using their complaints process and state that you are concerned that this may be a fraudulent claim.

However I think you do need to remember that sometimes hire cars, collection and delivery costs can be involved and possibly time off from paid employment, so it can justifiably be more than £7.98.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for your replies.

I looked up the car model and reg and no electric components or heated wing mirror - it really is quite an old and bashed up car anyway.


No hire car involved - I saw thw lady driving it subsequently - she had bent the wing mirror back into place within an hour of the incident and the glass didn't fall out - it was just cracked.

I'm assuming they have a dutyy to mitigate loss? I phoned a garage less than 0.5 miles from the claimant's house and was told it could bepaired immediately for 35 pounds inc parts (replacement glass).

My insurer has not contacted me at all throughout this process - they didn't tell me a claim had been made' or that it had been paid out; neither did they ask me to confirm details of the incident.

My car doesn' t even have a scratch on it - not consistent with claims of that level!

The only reason I found out they'd claimed is on my car insurance renewal quote...

Feeling very annoyed but strangely expected this to happen as the other party sounded like a total chancer...

lisyloo

I'm assuming they have a dutyy to mitigate loss?

Correct.

neither did they ask me to confirm details of the incident.

I'd be annoyed about that too.
I would write in a complaint under their formal complaints procedure and notify them that you are conerned that they did not get your report and the level of the claim appears fraudulent.
I would send it recorded delivery (75p) and keep the receipt.
Esure have lost 4 of my letters before when I wanteded a refund.
If you are still disatisffied at the end then you can you to the independent ombudsman and get it reviewed, but it will take some months.

You could have paid the £35 directly yourself.

[Deleted User]

That's the thing - at the time I couldn't find the driver so kindly left my number under their wipers (after taking photos) - I could easily have driven off, but I did the responsible thing and gave my details.

Then, I got a call from - not the driver, but her 'boyfriend' threatening me and saying that the door is smashed in etc (it's not - I have photos) - I did at the time off to pay for the replacement wing mirror glass (plus cradle, if necessary), because it was such a minor knock, but once he started trying to claim the door was dented I recognised he was chancing it and directed it through my insurer. Probably not the 'proper' thing to do, but now I feel like an idiot for doing things correctly!

The problem is that the driver is...(ahem), not the brighest spark in the circuit, and I think her boyfriend was egging her on to make a bigger claim. As I said, my car is scratch-less - and you would have thought that if I'd caused £1,196 worth of damage, my own car would have seen some of it...

Within a few hours of the incident I phoned the local garage (as I said, within 0.5 miles of where we both live - the incident happened around the corner from my home) and they said that it's a £35 job to replace the glass (although I could easily have replaced it myself). The mirror wasn't heated or electric - and even replacing the whole mirror unit would have been no more than £80 (I researched this at the time).

If they have a duty to mitigate loss then clearly they didn't.

I did report the incident to eSure as per my insurance policy and was told that if they make a claim someone would contact me to confirm my side of the story - at the time, I stressed that I believed any damage was in the region of £10 and I told them that I thought the other party were going to exaggerate their claim.

eSure told me it wouldn't affect my premium unless a claim was actually made, but that they thought it was unlikely given the costs involved.

Anyway, since then, nothing. eSure didn't contact me to tell me a claim had been made (other than putting the word 'outstanding' on my renewal quote) and then didn't contact me to say that payment had been made to the third party. Neither did they contact me to give me a chance to counteract any claims the third party had made.

It's all in the past now and I'm not hugely bothered by it - you live and you learn - but just incredibly frustrating how when you do things by the book you end up screwed. I did nothing wrong - and I don't believe the incident was even my fault (other driver drove away) - but because the owner of the parked car wants to push her luck - or rather, because her boyfriend wants to encourage her to push her luck - I'm made to look like I've caused more damage than I have.

Surely the insurance company would investigate and do all they can not to pay out? Surely they would want some sort of proof that MY car caused the damage being claimed? What's to stop the owner taking a sledgehammer to their car door and claiming I had caused this in the incident? Surely - if they are suggesting there's been anything more than a superficial wing-mirror knock - they ought to check my car to see if the paint colour matches etc?

When looking at eBay, most Clios in that age bracket (98) are going for around £500 second-hand - and 80% of these are not as scuffed and run-down as the third party's car (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=1998+renault+clio&_sacat=See-All-Categories) - how can they receive a payout that's more than the car's worth?

Frustrated. Rant over

lisyloo

and was told that if they make a claim someone would contact me to confirm my side of the story

I think you have a very valid complaint with the way it's been dealt with.
This may increase your premium for 3 years on all motoring policies you hold or are named on and that could relate to hundreds of pounds especially if you have other vehicles or are named on your partners vehicle(s).
You might want to try and estimate and claim this cost by using a comparison site and entering 0 claims and then 1 fault claim (or appropriate figures for claims and NCD) to see the difference, then multiply by 3 then multiply by how many policies you have or are named on.

I am always quite fatisdious of keeping names, dates and times of phone calls as sometimes they can be recorded and it can help with complaints.
Also by using recorded delivery when approriate.
Not because I think letters get lost in the post, but that companies like Esure use that excuse when it suits them.

Quentin

lisyloo wrote: »

You might want to try and estimate and claim this cost by using a comparison site and entering 0 claims and then 1 fault claim (or appropriate figures for claims and NCD) to see the difference, then multiply by 3 then multiply by how many policies you have or are named on.

Whether or not a "claim" ensued is immaterial. This is 1 "fault" incident however you look at it, and has been recorded by the insurer.

The OP has to say "yes" to the question regarding any losses etc, as he is happy this incident was down to him.

[Deleted User]

Quentin wrote: »

Whether or not a "claim" ensued is immaterial. This is 1 "fault" incident however you look at it, and has been recorded by the insurer.

The OP has to say "yes" to the question regarding any losses etc, as he is happy this incident was down to him.

Quentin - is this really the case? Surely I am entitled to say 'yes, I caused damage to the car', but 'no, not the amount of damage you are suggesting'? Car insurance doesn't support the 'egg shell skull' principle of personal injury, surely?

In law, insurance is designed to be restitutionary to the third party who has suffered a loss. If I cause damage, then my insurer ought to remedy that damage, but given that the level of payment - although not coming from my pocket - has a directly proportional cost to myself (in that, my premium will be higher if the amount paid out is higher) - surely I have a right to dispute the level of damages paid out?

Or, put another way, if I've caused £8 worth of damage, why should my insurer be entitled to pay out £1,196 without checking/consulting with me first. Where is their 'proof' that I caused that level of damage (as opposed to any damage)?

Like I said, the car was already an old, scrappy car and I'm worried they've used this tiny knock as the perfect excuse to get a payout.

[Deleted User]

p.s. in any event, surely the insurer would want to pay out as little as possible and so would have done more to support me/deny that I did the damage?

[Deleted User]

Sorry, just to clarify my original post - in reference to the 'egg shell skull' principle, I recognise reading it into the current situation that it definitely DOESN'T apply to the situation here, given that the ancillary damage didn't exist, if that makes sense?