disciplinary advice please (social networking - misconduct), sackable?

sjaypink

bitsandpieces wrote: »

Is your friend in a union that he can ask for advice? As well as explaining that this group wasn't meant to be nasty, I'd also suggest that your friend apologises for doing this, and offers to apologise to Mr X and parents too. Your friend should get personal advice from an expert, though.

yes, he is forbidden for speaking to any other employees at present, but perhaps a letter could be passed through those heading the meeting next.

he is genuinely sorry, and im not in a position (nor the type of person!) to say it any other way than it is! he has been stupid, incredibly stupid.

....but he really did get on with mr x, and gave him a lot of time at work, increased responsibilites etc. mr x's parents even said to the manager recently how x had enjoyed work much more since my friend had spent time trying to intergrate him more

unfortunately, it was perhaps not all gone about in a 'proffessional' manner, i do understand that totally.

sjaypink

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

But I doubt that pointing out that he has a track record of bullying other colleagues will help him much at his disciplinary.

it appears you have a personal axe to grind here, and, as much as im sorry about that, i have to point out its not really helping....

i think its important i spell out very clearly the difference between bullying, and a shared (albeit immature) sense of humour/ camaraderie

my friend agrees mr x could be regarded as not being part of this, as he is not a member of the site involved, however, there is no need to suggest all colleagues are being bullied by my friend (who theyre also friends with)

bitsandpieces

sjaypink wrote: »

yes, he is forbidden for speaking to any other employees at present, but perhaps a letter could be passed through those heading the meeting next.

Yes - fgs don't contact Mr X in the meantime! But it may be helpful to offer (to the company) to apologise to Mr X.

zzzLazyDaisy

It is standard practice your friend is not allowed to contact colleagues during the course of the investigation and disciplinary procedure, and for good reason.

However, he is entitled to ask for further investigations if he thinks those investigations might reveal useful information or mitigating circumstances that might lead his employer to take a more lenient view.

Mr X and his parents have been interviewed about this matter, and may even have been the ones who made the complaint. If so, and if their comments/complaints are to be taken into account, your friends should be given the gist of what has been said (he is not entitled to see a statement, nor does the employer have to disclose the identity of the person who made the comment/complaint, and he certainly has no right to 'cross-examine that person).

However he is entitled to point out that Mr X and his parents have praised his work with Mr X to his manager, and to ask that this be investigated and taken into account. Along with his remorse and previous good work, he might just get away with a Final Written Warning, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

scopey

Sjaypink - you write very nicely and you do seem very concerned. I would add my tuppence, and that if indeed there was a genuine desire for your friend to just have a laugh and not to be personal then that will come out. If he and others deepdown feel this was bullying, then i believe that will come out too in the misconduct ruling. We all have a gut feeling about these sorts of things.

In answer to your original question, i think the company should take this guys longer record into consideration when inflicting a punishment. Secondly they should address all the extra-curricular mickey taking, at a separate meeting and put a stop to it. As your friend, probably feels that others are doing it, why pick on his particular facebook group. - That however is not a defence.

One question, to an outsider, were these sites a) Funny in good taste b) neither here nor there c) Bullying and rude?

sjaypink

scopey wrote: »

One question, to an outsider, were these sites a) Funny in good taste b) neither here nor there c) Bullying and rude?

difficult question for me... depends, what kind of outsider?!

trying to be as unbiased as possible, the fact that mr x was not a member of the site on which the group was set up made it not to my taste...
but my current line of work is the absolute polar opposite of the type of work my friend does. they are asked to get the job done as quick as possible (for pretty !!!!!! money) etc etc- and so are all mostly the work hard, play hard types, who (in my humble opinion!) do not have the same level of foresight, empathy etc as many of us do..... not that i like to stereotype the behaviour of groups of young men of course

however, having seen the group it was most definately not bullying and rude- it was literally an 'appreciation' of how mr x and his antics make the day go faster...

...but i see how it can be suggested how maybe he wouldnt have that sense of humour had he not had a learning disibilty etc., and of course, as i said, as mr x was not a member of the site himself it does look worse

thanks again, everyone

zzzLazyDaisy

scopey wrote: »

if indeed there was a genuine desire for your friend to just have a laugh and not to be personal then that will come out. If he and others deepdown feel this was bullying, then i believe that will come out too in the misconduct ruling.

Where an allegation of unlawful harassment is concerned (which is what making fun of a disabled colleague may amount to) it is NOT how the friend views his actions that counts. If that were the case, any racial or sexual harassment could be excused by claiming the comments were 'just banter' with no intention to cause offence. In fact in early discrimination cases that argument was tried, but it is established now that whether or not the 'offender' intended to cause offence is not the issue.

reheat

Even if nothing explicitly nasty was said on the site, the very existence of a highly public targeting of someone is a real abuse of their basic human right to reasonable privacy. No matter what was or was not said it must have been truly humiliating ... a rather cruel thing to do.

ceridwen

For once - I'm not in favour of this being treated as totally separate to work/done in own time/etc.

On this occasion the "social network" commented about - indeed was specifically about - a work colleague. A big no no to that.

It doesnt matter what anyone actually thinks of Mr X. It doesnt matter what comments they have or havent made about Mr X. The mere fact that he was commented about AT ALL was wrong.

If anyone ever set up a social network or anything about me on the Internet there would be all hell to pay as far as I was concerned - even if every single comment I spotted was along the lines of "ceridwens a lovely person...a pleasure to work with...etc...etc". I would find the mere fact that such a network had been set up at all very intrusive and would worry that someone would use it to post a derogatory comment about me.

Some people value their privacy very highly - and they are entitled to.

Your friend was bang out of order and I agree with the firm for once.

ceridwen

sjaypink wrote: »

however, having seen the group it was most definately not bullying and rude- it was literally an 'appreciation' of how mr x and his antics make the day go faster...

which could very easily be seen as bullying.

I think the difference here is that some of my colleagues make jokey comments to me about personal things - but these are said verbally to my face and I know that they are just being jokey and not bullying. But - if comments were there in writing and on an "anyone can join in" basis - then things would be very different - and I would rank those exact same comments rather differently and be concerned that those colleagues who dont like me would "join in" or, at the least, not see that those comments were ones that had been made in fun by colleagues I get on okay with and think they had "company" in their opinions (that they dont actually have).

Big difference.