Told Ticket Cancelled But Still Fined

patfrompenge

Dear All,

I received a Penalty Fare Notice - REMINDER today (13.07.09) issued on the 10th July 2009 relating to a PFN issued on the 15th June 2009 in respect of a rail journey from New Beckenham to Waterloo East. It gives me 14 days to pay a £20 fine otherwise I will incur a further £20 administration charge.

It advises it is now too late to appeal.

I commute everyday between New Beckenham and Waterloo East or Charing Cross.

The circumstances were that I arrived at Waterloo East and took out my rail ID card holder in which I also carry my ticket to travel. However, the ticket was not in the usual compartment of the ID holder. Despite searcing the other compartments of the ID holder I had to admit defeat and approached the ticket inspectors and fessed up that I must have left my ticket at home.

I was issued with a PFN and proceeded to walk out of the station to catch a bus. But just as I got to the station exit I found the ticket in one of the folds of the ID holder as opposed to the compartments I had searched.

I returned to the ticket inspector who issued the ticket and showed him the my monthly ticket valid to 18.06.2009. After consulting with a fellow ticket inspector he advised me that he would cancel the ticket and I saw him look up the ticket he had issued and assumed this was the end of the matter until I received the PFN today.

Given the circumstances I have outlined does anyone know the best way to obtain a fair resolution of this situation. It is of concern that I have been advised that I have no right of appeal

I did not keep the original Notice as I did not think I had any reason to keep it.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Kind regards
Pat from Penge

chuckley

do they know of the cancelled ticket? did u keep it or did they take it back?

KeithP

chuckley wrote: »

do they know of the cancelled ticket? did u keep it or did they take it back?

I am sure that if the OP thinks hard about it he will remember that the PFN was handed back to the issuing ticket inspector.
Write to whatever address is on the reminder, explaining just as you have above.

chuckley

so what proof does OP have of said incident?! espesh if they didnt get the refund...

patfrompenge

I havn't contacted them yet to protest - I literally got home found the PFN letter and registered on this site for advice.

I assume the receipt of the PFN means that despite what I was told the ticket was submitted for processing.

My memory isn't the greatest but I believe I brought the ticket home only I cannot find it anywhere.

patfrompenge

chuckley wrote: »

so what proof does OP have of said incident?! espesh if they didnt get the refund...

Chuckley - thanks for your post but I do not understand it.

Who or what is OP?

No refund was involved as they gave me a ticket that said I had to pay £20 and then advised they had cancelled it.

Kind regards
Pat

patfrompenge

KeithP wrote: »

I am sure that if the OP thinks hard about it he will remember that the PFN was handed back to the issuing ticket inspector.
Write to whatever address is on the reminder, explaining just as you have above.

Keith P

Thank you for your post - I posted a reply as follows:

I havn't contacted them yet to protest - I literally got home found the PFN letter and registered on this site for advice.

I assume the receipt of the PFN means that despite what I was told the ticket was submitted for processing.

My memory isn't the greatest but I believe I brought the ticket home only I cannot find it anywhere.

But as a newbie overlooked to link it to your message - Apologies.

Pat

chuckley

patfrompenge wrote: »

Chuckley - thanks for your post but I do not understand it.

Who or what is OP?

No refund was involved as they gave me a ticket that said I had to pay £20 and then advised they had cancelled it.

Kind regards
Pat

OP = Original Poster or Opening/Original Post.

if u have the ticket u can offer it to them so they can cancel the penalty... however if u dont have it along with ur valid @ the time ticket... ur somewhat stuffed!!!!

patfrompenge

chuckley wrote: »

OP = Original Poster or Opening/Original Post.

if u have the ticket u can offer it to them so they can cancel the penalty... however if u dont have it along with ur valid @ the time ticket... ur somewhat stuffed!!!!

Thanks for educating a newbie.

I still have my monthly ticket and I'm sure their records would verify that a valid ticket was purchased for that day if they use my photo ID number.

Taking everyone's advice on board I have decided to write to the office that issued the reminder Notice as follows:

Revenue Protection Support Services
PO Box 89
Portsmouth
PO1 1EG
Date: 13 January 2009
Dear Sirs

Subject: PENALTY FARE NOTICE - REMINDER
Penalty Fare Notice: ********
Amount: £20.00

Date Issued: 15 June 2009
Photo Card No.: *********

I travel to and from work between New Beckenham and Charing Cross on a daily basis and frequently disembark at Waterloo East to catch a bus to my final destination at Holborn instead of walking from Charing Cross.

On the day I arrived at Waterloo East and took out my rail photo ID card holder in which I also carry my ticket to travel. However, the ticket was not in the usual compartment of the photo ID holder. Despite searching the other compartments of the ID holder I had to admit defeat and approached the ticket inspectors and confessed that I must have left my ticket at home.

I was issued with a PFN and then proceeded out of the station to catch a bus. But just as I got to the station exit I found the ticket in one of the folds of the ID holder as opposed to the compartments I had searched. Out of breath, I returned to the ticket inspector who issued the ticket within 5 – 10 minutes of the PFN having been issued and apologised profusely before showing him my monthly ticket valid to 18.06.2009.

After consulting with a fellow ticket inspector he advised me that he would cancel the ticket. I saw him look up the ticket he had issued and assumed this was the end of the matter until I received the PFN today. It seems the ticket has nevertheless been processed in error.

Given the circumstances I have outlined you will appreciate that I was dismayed to receive your REMINDER advising I have no right of appeal.

Taking all circumstances into consideration I should like to suggest a compromise that I hope you agree is a fair way to resolve the matter to everyone’s satisfaction. If you advise me of a date and time to attend Charing Cross station to meet the Ticket Inspector who issued the ticket I will be happy to attend. If the Ticket Inspector does not remember me, or his agreement to cancel the ticket, I will phone you on my mobile there and then to pay the £20 PFN on the spot.

I hope you find this agreeable and look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards



Pat ?????????
(mobile no **********)

I will post the result of my appeal in due course.

kind regards
Pat

KeithP

Excellent.

I cannot see how they can do anything else than cancel.

patfrompenge

I received a letter from IPFAS dated 06/08/09.

Despite being beyond the stated time limit for appeals they have kindly sent me a letter as follows:

Dear Mr O'Connor

Re: Penalty Fare Notice: ST******
Date Issued: 15 June 2009
Station From: New Beckenham
Station To: London

Thank you for your correspondence received by this office on the 17 July 2009.

To enable a correct assessment of your appeal, please forward a copy of your season ticket together with either the appropriate photocard or reverse side of your trio card, valid for the above journey.

If you are unable to provide a copy but hold a period ticket such as a monthly or annual (not a weekly), please send the following details; ticket office where season ticket was purchased, length of validity, eg: monthly / annual. These details will enable us to contact the issuing office to confirm validity.

Ticket offices do not hold records on weekly tickets and therefore a copy of these must be provided to ensure a correct assessment.

I look forward to receiving your reply within fourteen days from the date of this letter.

Any failure to respondwithin the given timescale will result in your appeal being declined by default.

Where there is any outstanding balance to be pursued on the penalty fare notice the debt recovery process will automatically be instigated by agents acting on behalf of the train company in this capacity, once the deadline for our response has been exceeded.

Please be advised that this is a generic responseand the above paragraph will not apply if the penalty fare has already been paid in full.

Yours sincerely
N. O'*******
Independent Penalty Fares Appeal Service

I will of course comply with the requested response supplying a copy of my monthly ticket, photocard, as well as details of the ticket office and validity of the ticket as a lot of the ink on the ticket has been rubbed away.

I will update you in due course when I have received a response.

Regards to All
PFP