Possible foundation problems?

Foxster

Hi,

I am hoping to gain a bit of an insight into foundation problem symptoms as well as some general advice...

I am a frist time buyer and a 3 bed detached house caught my eye last week. It was what I would consider to be cheap so went to view. The house is nice but requires updating. A 96 year old lady lived here for a long time but has now moved out so her nephew is selling it on her behalf. The house was built in 1975.

A previous deal had fallen through, the previous buyer was allegedly a 25 year old doctor whom could not get a mortgage. However, she did have a rather basic survey done (I obtained a copy from the agents) which points out some cracks and so on that are not deemed serious. This was only a visual survey,

Upon entering the house the vendor (both viewings) opened the back door immediately. My Dad noticed when he came on the second viewing that he could spell damp. The house is empty so would not cause great suspicion but it was the instant door opening did hint at suspicion.

Now, there have been some tests done on these cracks that the vendor did not mention. I am no expert but basically it looks as though the cracks have been drilled on the inside of the house where the cracks are or on the inside if the crack was on the outside. The survey states that these are from the house settling.

My question is: Is this "drilling" of cracks a test of structure/ foundation?

Now to add to this more problems were noted upon second viewing. There is a gap above the dining room window which has obviously been poorly fitted, it flexes when pushed. By eye this window looks as though it has sagged ever so slightly, maybe even 2-3mm. Do the frames sag at all or is it more likely to be the wall. They are double glazed windows that seem fairly old. The vendor claimed, "it just needs sealing".

The survey stated that under the front window some pointing needed doing. It appears damp under the window but the other houses also look damp in this spot. The pointing has come away in a "zig zag" shape. I could not feel damp on the internal wall but I don't think any damp should be entertained?

The house has more of a back yard than a garden as it is paved. The house is on a slight decline and there is a big house behind to which the corresponding rear garden backs onto the one I am viewing. The concern is that if it rains and all of the rain water gathers in the huge garden backing onto the yard of the house I am viewing as well as in the yard itself, where is the water going to go? It is obviously going to run downhill and I can only imagine this being a HUGE problem and hence the damp smell.

Upon more thinking we have come up with the possibility that the previous deal fell through as, upon a proper survey that was possibly carried out due to the first "visual" being deemed insufficient, problems were found (possible tests of cracks via drilling holes?) and the buyer pulled out. This seems more likely than a doctor failing to get a mortgage on a 100k house after spending money on surveys and the like.

Can an estate agent refrain from stating problems as the above? I plan to call tomorrow to enquire regarding shale tests etc, I dare say they will say that they don't have any such records.

The suspicions are growing and I plan to take someone more competent which such matters, to unravel the mystery is nothing else. Any advice or opinions would be hugely appreciated in the meantime.

Thank you in advance,

Jamie

Doozergirl

If the neighbours have a 'garden' with grass then the water is going directly into the ground, it won't be causing damp to your house as such. If damp is getting in then there is a gap in the house's defences. That would be the issue, not water outside - there will always be water outside

I'm also not aware of any test that would involve drilling into a wall. If the house is subsiding it would be caused by the ground, not by anything within a wall. I have experienced walls being tested for movement but generally through non invasive means on the wall but drilling in the ground around.

You're looking quite closely and I can only see that a full structural survey on the specific house would help you.

Who has suggested a shale test? Not being funny but no one employs an estate agent to know everything about a property. That's why you have surveyors and solicitors Estate Agents are in the business of marketing, not buildings. I would never even bother asking an EA about the structure of a property as they aren't qualified to comment.

Foxster

It was just strange how the estate agents had a copy of the last survey carried out a few months back. The whole story seemed quite strange but I may be over looking the mark a little.
I believe shale tests are required among a large number of housing estates on Teesside (where I am) and this estate is one of them.
I agree with the full survey comment, I will look into this and thank you for your advice.

Jamie

Doozergirl

I'd never look on any previous failed sale as a sign. If there was no failed sale then you'd never know of any issue either . You always look properly yourself. With the correct professionals it will lead you to any issue.

If the house looks particularlyt bad in your eyes - particularly wonky then at that age it is possibly not right. Someone that has viewed that house has a vague idea of what they are looking for!

Jonbvn

As a civil/structural engineer (not in residential property), I would say that the drilling of the cracks may have been done to stop them propogating (growing). It is not something that would be done to investigate subsidence.

Are there any other signs of subsidence? From RICS, the possible signs are:

New or expanding cracks in plasterwork
New or expanding cracks in outside brickwork
Doors or windows sticking for no particular reason
Rippling wallpaper that isn't caused by damp

If you decide to proceed, you must get a full structural survey done!

Lotus-eater

Before you pay out on that, the first thing I would do is go and see all the neighbours, or at least until you find one that will spill all the dirt.

Foxster

Thank you for all of your help and advice.

I will be going back for another viewing and taking on board the above.

I'll check doors windows and make sure they shut/ open properly and check more more cracks that appear more recent in plaster and the like.

As you said, a survey would pick this up anyway but did not want to shoot the mark and rack up a little more expense if something was obviously wrong.

Thanks again,

Jamie

jema_2

hi, as a property buyer & buildings engineer... heres a couple of things to think about- i'll probably outrage any surveyors too

basically any building surveyors will guard their back sides so thoroughly these days ( in fear of being sued) that their opinion will either be - run scared at the slightest whiff of movement in a property... or cover their findings with so many caveats that they couldnt establish the cause with out access..... that half the surveys done arent worth the paper they're written on...
therefore accordingly we never use surveyors...
rule no1... if prospective problems worry you ( or wouldnt like dealing with tradesmen )/ or you finacially might not be able to deal with restricted mortgage terms / repair bills... walk away from any property with any suspisions.
good practise - no2 - you can learn a huge amount about a street / area for absolutley free - a good insurance broker- will test you the risks associated with that postcode- from susbsidence areato theft rates,
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/37795.aspx- otherwise know as whats in my back yard - has details on drainage / flooding / contaminated land.
good practise no 3- as said by others the neighbours - they'll tell you if tradesmen have been called to look at problems, or the nearest local builder will tell you if the area has problems
no-4 - always carry a damp meter - damp isnt necesarily a worry, has many causes - its how long its been untreated.. is the worry, with any wood in the region prospectively affected... thats when the costs rack up
... we usually find going equipped with a damp meter / a laser level / & electric circuit tester... even if we dont intend using them gets the est agent spilling the beans on any known issues - none of these items now cost more than £10-£15 in a diy store
laser level - small spirit level with red laser in the end - works a treat on telling is walls sagging / bowing / cracking... most common cause failed wall ties...which might be your culprit..
infact the drilled holes if about 8mm might be from a surveyors endoscope.. trying to see what cause of cracks might be
---- good luck

jema_2

dont forget... you can declare an interest in a property and in writing ask the vendor (or their relative) specific questions in writing, prior to making a formal offer -they would have to answer correctly as you can tie the document / answers in to any formal contract later-
we normally ask " has the vendor or any vendor appointed person who is not a fully qualified electrician carried out any works / repairs /fittings / alterations or ammendments to any form of the property electrical installation / wiring or electrical fittings - if so please give full details (which will be further registered in the contract details" ... etc tailor it to whatever you need to know... make sure you get all the info you need... have fun