criminal record- does this mean they cant work with children

kurjam

hi my sisters friend as been offered a job in a childrens club, for 5 - 12 yearolds.
they have sent of the crb form, but she is unsure if they will still want her.
13 years ago she failed to tell the jobcentre her boyfriend had moved in and claimed benefits as if she was single :: yes she now knows this was silly anyway...

she got a job and paid back all the money she claimed, even before it got to court.
anyway she got a 12 month conditional dis charge... she as never re offended, she learnt her lesson.
but will this stp the club employing her ??
and is this discharge now what they call a spent conviction ??

thank you

junkmayle

Kurjam - Speaking from experience, if your sisters friend didnt mention this at interview, I would be VERY surprised if they offered her the job. If she DID mention at interview, I would bet that the job offer would never have materialised. Be very clear. Nothing is EVER spent. Rehabilitation does not exist. I would expect that an enhanced CRB will be carried out. This not only lists all actual cautions and convictions EVER (even twenty or thirty years ago in some cases), but will also list an unproven/unsubstantiated/ malicious allegations, heresay and anything else plod thinks or suspects and all with no recourse to correct it. Read the case of John Pinnington. When I apply for jobs and the usual 'Having a criminal record is not necessarily a bar to employment' crap is heavily prominent, I send in duplicate forms, one declaring my heinous crime against humanity and one omitting this. To press I have had eight interview offers from those without the declaration and none where I have declared. Read from that what you will. Stupid thing is, many people seem to feel somehow 'safer' if a person has been 'approved' by the CRB. I challenge anyone to articulate in clear English how and why they are. Only today I heard about a teacher half killing a pupil at school and I am sure that he was 'approved' by the CRB. Good luck with the job offer though.

Motivatedworkingmum

I disagree.

I always think honesty is the best policy. I sign off CRBs all the time within previously an educational environment and within the care sector presently. I would always recommend declaring any conviction when asked throughout the interview and application process. I see CRB disclosue forms all the time and the applicants that declare convictions in my eyes (and would be recommended as best practice generally) in terms of a reflection of their character would always been seen favourably by the employer. For most employers each case should be judged on merit and take into account, severity of conviction, circumstances surrounding the convictions, penalties incurred, how long ago it happened etc, etc. In my opinion, and if I were recrutiing you into a childcare setting and you had declared your conviction to me, was descriptive in your account to me, I would not have a problem employing you. I would have been forwarned prior to your CRB coming back to me from the CRB and your conviction would not be a surprise to me. TBH in a childcare setting the main things they would be looking for would be, sexual offences, drug offences and offences involving violence.

Although it is your friends decision as to what to do my advice would be to complete the CRB, in a separate letter write down the details, why, when, where, what outcome, etc , etc and maybe envlose any paperwork you had detailing the conviction. When you hand the CRB form back in ask to have a private word with your inetrviewer and explain everything. This is somthing you should always do, although I am sure your friend regrets this incident wholeheartedly she will need to declare this really for the rest of her working life, but in my opinion this should not stop her from gaining employment. On CRB's that I see, many do come back with minor/[petty convictions for all sorts ('lower level' crimes not serious offences - of course anything serious is a different story) and this does not preclude them from employment.

Hope this helps.

jamespond_2

kurjam wrote: »

hi my sisters friend as been offered a job in a childrens club, for 5 - 12 yearolds.
they have sent of the crb form, but she is unsure if they will still want her.
13 years ago she failed to tell the jobcentre her boyfriend had moved in and claimed benefits as if she was single :: yes she now knows this was silly anyway...

she got a job and paid back all the money she claimed, even before it got to court.
anyway she got a 12 month conditional dis charge... she as never re offended, she learnt her lesson.
but will this stp the club employing her ??
and is this discharge now what they call a spent conviction ??

thank you

Did she mention it in the interview? If she did, they might be OK about it.

if she didn't...she won't get the job.

PolishBigSpender

To be honest, this is one of the things that is making the UK such an unpleasant society.

What relevance does a criminal record for benefit fraud have to do with one's ability to work with children? Absolutely none.

Spirit_2

Having a criminal record does not preclude someone from working with children. An enhanced POCA check is used to identify applicants unsuitable to work with children.

If the job application asked about criminal convictions and your friend lied, that would be sufficient to withdraw the offer, if it was silent on the matter, or your friend answered truthfully then a reasonable employer will not reject your friend when the CRB disclosure arrives.

It is good advice to explain convictions (truthfully) to your interviewer at the time you hand in the crb application.

woody01

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

To be honest, this is one of the things that is making the UK such an unpleasant society.

What relevance does a criminal record for benefit fraud have to do with one's ability to work with children? Absolutely none.

Its deciphering trust.
The woman, whether the conviction is spent or not, is clearly a thief and a liar.
To this end, would you want her around your children?

(As for the first statemnt you made, please free to leave our 'unpleasant society' at any point).

junkmayle

Exactly what I said earlier. Come on Woody01 - explain to everyone in clear English why this woman is somehow a 'risk' to anyones kids. I would rather have someone who committed fraud years ago than an obviously unstable teacher, 'approved' by the CRB, that could cave my kids head in with a metal weight. CRB checks are totally worthless really and are there to serve a bloated beaurocracy, bleed money from already under-rescourced groups, and many peoples inability to accept that no-one is perfect. PolishBigSpender is right. UK society is sick. Only when you have lived abroad, even for just a few months, and returned do you see what he/she means.

SomeBozo

junkmayle wrote: »

Exactly what I said earlier. Come on Woody01 - explain to everyone in clear English why this woman is somehow a 'risk' to anyones kids. .

She may or may not be a risk.

Look at it this way, 2 candidates, both meet the education and skills part of the skills criteria, the only difference is one has a criminal record and on doesn't.

Which one would you pick?

Bozo

Savvy_Sue

On the CRB form there is a box to tick to say whether you have criminal convictions. If she didn't tick that box, and didn't tell anyone, she's got a problem. Best thing would be to phone the club and say that she needs to disclose something, she has only just realised it will show, etc etc etc.

NACRO give advice on disclosing safely.

FWIW I used to help run an out of school club and had no problem with employing people with criminal records, as long as I heard about it first from the person not the CRB. And, obviously, I and another committee member then formed a judgement about the relevance of the conviction, when it happened, extenuating circumstances etc, but we'd do this without them knowing the person's name.

junkmayle

Somebozo just confirms what I said in my original reply. Rehabilitation does not exist. If government and, seemingly, a majority of the public wish to use ANY minor indiscretion to beat people with for the rest of thier lives, society itself suffers, which would also confirm PolishBigSpenders and my statement that UK society is unpleasant. Just remember, I could make an allegation against anyone. Even if it is half believeable, its registered against your name FOREVER. Wont affect you at all, until its time for your next CRB check or you wish to change jobs. Cant challenge or change the info either. Fair? If I was REALLY serious, Im sure I could bribe a streetwise kid a few hundred to make the allegation. Career and life destroyed.