Land Transaction Return form

gemstars

Hi all!

I can't afford to pay my solicitor 60 quid to fill in this form so I'm trying to fill it in myself. I've found the inland revenue guidance notes online but I'm still a bit stumped on a couple of things.

Are there any experts out there who wouldn't mind giving me a hand?

Gem

Richard_Webster

What stumps you then?

clutton_2

the bowler ?

gemstars

Richard_Webster wrote: »

What stumps you then?

Thanks so much! My queries are:

SDLT1 Q4. Effective date. The guidance notes state that this is usually the completion date and "Note: you must not post-date this entry."

However section SDLT1 Q6. Contract date states "Whether or not the transaction has gone to completion or settlement, enter the date of the contract or agreement for sale or lease"

I've got 2 questions relating to this:
1) What date am I actually supposed to put in Q6? Is it the offer was accepted?
2) If the transaction has not gone to completion I won't have yet sent the form in (as I can't post-date Q4) so I'm confused as what I should be putting in Q6.

SDLT1 Q9. Reliefs. Am I claiming one of these? I don't think I am but I'm buying a house which is under the stamp duty threshold so is that classed as a relief?

SDLT1 Q30. Title number. Do all properties listed with the land registry have one of these? If so, where do I find it?


Thanks Richard!

clutton_2

SDLT1 Q30. - either ask your solicitor - or download your title from LR website for £3 and it will be on there

Richard_Webster

Are you being asked to complete the form before exchange of contracts or after completion?

Normally if using the paper form I would complete the form (and not make an extra charge for doing so) and leave the effective date and the date of exchange blank. The effective date is the completion date for all practical purposes. I would get the client to sign it before exchange of contracts and then following completion I would insert those dates. So if you haven't exchanged yet then you fill it in and leave those spaces blank and ask the solcitor to fill them in before submitting them. If you have alraedy completeed then you will know when that was - the effective date - and you should know when you exchanged contracts.

Presumably your solicitor has sent you copies of the various documents with a pre-contract report and included in them should be a copy of the seller's Land Registry title - you get the number from there. If the title is not yet registered (which is rare) then there will not be a number. If you haven't been sent these copies then simply ask for them from your solicitor. If he refuses to supply them without an extra charge then he is not acting properly for you because it is part of his job to excplain what you are buying in legal terms and there is normally no way he can do that without sending copies of them to you.

I have never really understood how firms can allow clients to complete the forms themselves unless they are not getting a mortgage. If they are getting a mortgage it is the solicitor's responsibility to make sure that the transaction can be registered. You can't register without clearance from HMRC and you may not get the clearance if the form is wrongly completed. So if a lay person completes the form wrongly the solicitor may get it in the neck from the client's mortgage lender if the title isn't registered. This means that as far as I can see if there is a mortgage the solicitor has got to check the form. So I would be really interested to hear from those firms that give the client the option of completing the form themselves as to how they deal with this issue. It must cost nearly as much in staff time to check the form as to complete it in the first place.

I think that saying completion of the SDLT form is an optional extra is something approaching a con. The justification is that the responsibility is that of the buyer and not the solicitor. I suspect what happens in most cases is that when it comes to it the solicitor says "Well, you can complete it if you wnat, but it is very complicated." They may be send the form out and the client looks at it and in many cases gives up and asks the solicitor to do it.

It is legitmate for firms to charge extra for completing the form as long as they make it clear that they are doing so when they give their estimaate. It is questionable whether this should be hidden in "terms and conditions". I make a point of telling people that I put my fees up in 2003 when th4e SDLT forms were intrduced but I do not charge extra for them as I regard them as part of the normal work we do.

See this thread for a case where someone is being asked to pay for completion when this was not cinlcuded int he original estimate:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1802159

moggerz

Richard_Webster wrote: »

You can't register without clearance from HMRC and you may not get the clearance if the form is wrongly completed. So if a lay person completes the form wrongly the solicitor may get it in the neck from the client's mortgage lender if the title isn't registered. This means that as far as I can see if there is a mortgage the solicitor has got to check the form. So I would be really interested to hear from those firms that give the client the option of completing the form themselves as to how they deal with this issue. It must cost nearly as much in staff time to check the form as to complete it in the first place.

That's a really good point Richard - thanks as ever.

However presumably we too get in the neck (albeit financially) if the form is filled out incorrectly/not in time. is that right? My solicitors firm (fairly large one - GSW in Liv) have told me "we do not normally allow this to be completed by clients" because of the reasons as you put it.

For the record they did out line all their charges in a glossy mag at the start...so no complaints there.

One issue for me is the payment of the stamp duty. I effectively have a few extra days (which I will need) to collate this money together. My completing the forms myself (SDLT1), I can pay this money 2-3weeks after completion date without (crucially) compromising the sale.

have i got this right?
???

silvercar

One issue for me is the payment of the stamp duty. I effectively have a few extra days (which I will need) to collate this money together. My completing the forms myself (SDLT1), I can pay this money 2-3weeks after completion date without (crucially) compromising the sale.

I'm sure Richard will be along with the official answer, but I had a similar discussion with my solicitor. I wanted to gain the interest on the SDLT and knew it doesn't actually have to be with HMRC until 28 days after sale. My solicitor said that, in acting for the mortgage lender, he had a duty to ensure that the mortgage legal charge was registered with the Land Registry, so he had to know when he completed the purchase that the money was available to pay the SDLT.

So you are right that you have time after completion to gather funds, but the solicitor is right that he has to ensure that the SDLT is completed and the tax paid promptly.

Theoretically you could arrange for the money to be transferred to the solicitor by the required date, but most solicitors want to tidy your file as soon after completion as possible.

Richard_Webster

If you are not getting a mortgage then in theory you could leave paying the SDLT until the last minute, but given present interest rates I am not sure what the real gain will be.

If you are getting a mortgage then your solicitor will want the SDLT before completion for reasons already explained.

moggerz

well I guess so as he is representing the lender. What if I just decide to send it to HMRC without going through them??? if it is correct then job done?

silvercar

moggerz wrote: »

well I guess so as he is representing the lender. What if I just decide to send it to HMRC without going through them??? if it is correct then job done?

They will need to see it, to ensure that they have acted for the lender correctly in ensuring the lender has a charge on the property. What happens if you make a mistake?