DPScheme. Dispute now or later.

Mutter_2

My daughter and friends will be disputing amount held back by Landlady through the Deposit protection Scheme.

£500 is being witheld , in addition to other amounts, for the purchase and fitting of a new bathroom wash basin until July 25th.

What the girls need to know is, should the dispute be started now or wait and see how much change she gives them from £500 after the 25th.

Also, what are your views that it was mentioned elewhere that LL could claim for basin via her own insurance and indeed should she?

clutton_2

you cannot claim from DPS until the LL has said exactly what deductions s/he will make and until the tenancy is ended

you need to tell us how the sink got damaged before anyone can advise

tbs624

"what are your views that it was mentioned elewhere that LL could claim for basin via her own insurance and indeed should she?"

Depends on the circumstances: if your daughter and her mates damaged the sink by fooling around/being less than careful then they should pay: why should the LL make a claim on her insurance and lose her no-claims or see her premiums rise? Ts *are* able to take out their own insurance to cover potential damage to a LLs property.

However, the condition of the washbasin at the start of the tenancy & its expected life span in a tenanted property would have to be taken into account when apportioning costs.

A LL has to give written confirmation of any potential deductions and it's at that point that your daughter & her co-tenants can try negotiating with the LL . If negotiation doesn't work then they have to decide whether to use the scheme's adjudication or go via the courts.

Gorgeous_George

If your daughter is old enough to live without you, she is old enough to sort her own problems.

I would never claim for a broken basin on muy insurance (BTL property or my own home). If the tenants broke it, it is their problem. A LL could reasonably charge you for the burden of finding a plumber and dealing with the work as well as all costs incurred and any delay in reletting the property caused by the damaged basin. I would advise my kids to fix it before they moved out (at their own expense).

GG

Mutter_2

The basin is the original from when the house was built, probably 1930's. A heavy soap dispenser had slid, due to condensation from a rickety shelf above it. The girls are their own worst enemies in a way, as had they reported the shelf needing fixing, in writing to LL they may have been in the clear. No one was in the bathroom when the soapdish fell by the way.

They accepted it needed replacing, arranged for a period basin through an architectural salvage plus a plumber to fit it. However the LL took so long to decide whether to go ahead, the plumber had to take on other work so the opportunity was lost.
The AST ended on June 19th. tbs624, I arranged insurance for my daughter but I believe it's only for her personal stuff, tv, computer etc. They are willing to pay but £500 between 5 of them is a lot of money, though it does say in TA that breakages must be like for like.

Quote this from the ex LL.

"List of deductions from deposit and reasons.

Deductions of items badly damaged.

Damage to bed mattress(double bed size) unevenly flattened coils. Irreperable damage. When provided, mattress was in brand new condition.( Original cost £120)
£60. Deducted.

Badly stained and dirty carpet, including about 15 small groups of stains, spreading across the whole room. When provided the carpet was newly fitted just few months before.
£75 Deducted.

Total deduction £135.00


Deposit.£1270

Agreed to return.£ 1,135
£500(agreed to be witheld until the repair of the broken sink- 25-July-2009)

Balance-returned to tenant by a cheque, £635.00



"List of items agreed not to be charged"
Stains on 5 dining chair covers £8x5 =40

Stain on brand new sofa £20
Cleaning shower cube, £15
Grass cutting and tidying, £40@4 =£160

Total £35. ??

The mattress is being disputed as it was covered by a deep feather bed and a further down zip cover, so daughter's body never even came into contact with mattress. Any mattress that only cost £120 will have a "sleep mark", it just requires turning.
The cream carpet had one eye shadow mark, I was there helping them to move.


The LL will not discuss anything at all, saying "take it up with arbitration, I don't have to speak with you anymore as you are no longer my tenants"

Gorgeous_George

Fair enough. Contact the TDS and dispute everything. Was there an agreed inventory when the tenancy started? If not, the onus of proof is on the LL.

GG

clutton_2

as a LL i think most of those costs (if the damage is agreed) are extremely reasonable.

tbs624

As GG says, inventory is key here. If the LL didn't do one then she'll struggle.

If she doesn't have anything to show that the basin was in excellent condition then she can't expect a brand new shiny one at your daughter's expense. It does sound as though the girls tried to do the right thing in terms of replacement whilst still at the property. For future tenancies yes your daughter should make sure she notifies all repairs issues in writing asap (keeping a copy) and if she know a shelf is dodgy she should make sure she doesn't put stuff on it until it gets fixed.

The LL cannot simply pluck figures out of the air - is she charging cleaning costs or for part renewal? It doesn't matter that she puts " like for like" in her tenancy agreement: all that can in effect mean is that if she started off with a brand name basin she can insist that, where possible, it's the same brand or standard, rather than a cheaper DIY shed version . The cost still has to be properly apportioned & she *has* to allow for age, FW&T etc

Agree with you, Mutter, on the comments on the mattress - a cheapish mattress in a tenanted property will show signs of wear and tear & if the coils are "unevenly flattened" after normal use then the LL needs to take it up with the manufacturers.

There's no excuse for make up or other stains being left on carpets - the girls should have been more careful or have got it cleaned up straight away. ( Car upholstery cleaner generally does the job) However, the LL can't just say that a carpet was "newly fitted a few months before the start of the tenancy" - she needs to show both the actual age of it, and the actual condition at the start of the tenancy, & its life expectancy. Is 60 quid what she thinks it will take to clean it or is she charging for a share of replacement costs? ( Why on earth some LLs put cream carpets in a tenanted property is beyond me, but thats a side issue).

Whilst generally I'd agree with GG's comments about letting adult offspring deal with their own problems, frequently it is the parent who has coughed up the deposit money at the start , especially for student lets, so I can understand him/her wanting to oversee things to a certain extent.

The girls should have one last try to get the LL to confirm all costs in writing, and then perhaps look at raising a dispute or court claim if they are still not happy.

Copy any letter to the LL both to the tenancy deposit scheme and to the tenancy relations officer (private sector rentals team )at the local council, keeping a copy for their own records. Sometimes seeing the words cc: TRO, Bigtown Council at the bottom of a letter can give some Lls a bit of a nudge towards an earlier resolution.

Mutter_2

Yes there was an inventory. One of the tenants signed but added a note at the side to say they didn't agree !

I think £500 is excessive for a hand basin to be used in student rental, if I was a LL I would remove period fittings and put in bog standard.
If the girls can find a genuine period basin and fit it it for £200, the LL should have accepted it. Heres one that would suit, although new, it matches.
http://www.victoriaplumb.com/Winchester_Basin_2.html

There definately will be a dispute but whether to go ahead now or see how much she charges for basin I don't know as I understand that once a dispute is raised, they only have 10 days in which to submit everything.
Thankyou so far to all for taking the time to reply.

princeofpounds

£500 for the repair of a handbasin?! Even with labour that's obscene (assuming it was nothing special like marble!). And I live in London.

Even accounting for 2hrs labour at an expensive £80 you could buy a basin, cupboard unit and toilet for that sort of money.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/85-White-Back-to-Wall-WC-%26-Basin-Unit-Set---RRP-%a3699_W0QQitemZ270366578644QQcmdZViewItem


The 'unevenly flattened coils' is just fair wear and tear. You sleep on a mattress, the coils flatten.

The carpet marks, if they exist, are a fair price.

Just get on with disputing the claim, seriously. Don't waste time corresponding with her.

One final point, I'm not sure how she is intending to part-return the deposit to you if it is still in the scheme? I thought it required tenant approval or an arbitration decision to remove it. Just make sure it is properly protected and no-one has authorised release...

Jomo

Surely if they didn't agree to the inventory they should have stopped there until they could come to an agreement!