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Warning - do not use wolstenholmes solicitors
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MissPomPoms wrote: »Hi there everyone including Cakinwande,
Speaking as someone who's not fortunately affected by this disaster; I'm simply a concerned citizen who's been following this thread.
I wish you and all those who've suffered such stress, financial loss and uncertainty the very best in resolving this issue quickly.
MissPomPoms
Thanks misspompoms for your support it's most appreciated. It's nice to know that other people are concerned too x
Tracie0 -
This is a question for any solicitors Reading this forum just for a second opinion although I still say I am more than happy with my solicitors just wanted another view on things. If you know my situation I am trying to recomplete my sale purchase but I had a burst pipe at my sale house and the insurance companies have been informed the risk was passed to our purchaser on exchange and he is still
ok even with all this disaster but should he still complete even if we have to have a retention in place until works are complete he wasn't planning to move straight in anyway and is happy he's gonna get new ceilings and a new kitchen from this. I'm concerned as the end of the chain is getting slightly wobbly and need to push a completion through.
Thanks Tracie0 -
Must admit that the SRA/LCS are confusing me re. Compensation
http://www.sra.org.uk/sra/news/wolstenholmes.page
From the link
"Whilst the LCS can award compensation for distress and inconvenience, the amount may be small in circumstances such as yours. There is no guarantee that the solicitors will be able to pay the award. Awards of compensation for distress and inconvenience directed by the LCS are not covered by the Compensation Fund. The solicitor's insurers may pay out if the LCS makes an award, but this is not guaranteed"
So the SRA will pay, if they deem it proper, to compensate for money lost to WH and hopefully the cost of a new solicitor to sort everything out.
Then if any of us feel we have been stressed and inconvenienced by this whole shambles we have to make a separate claim to the LCS for compensation!??
This is what I've been told by DWF. Why, oh why do we have to deal with 3 separate entities?0 -
homelessmat wrote: »My new solicitor has now received all of my searches back and given the undertaking to the seller's solicitors that I will pay their costs of £500+VAT to photocopy their half of the file and send it over to my new solicitors.
My solicitor has had to give an undertaking to my purchaser's solicitors that I will pay the Stamp Duty for him (otherwise he is likely to back out and I will lose the sale) and all because of Wolstenholmes! I've a good mind to add this to my compensation claim but just who do I claim it off? LCS? SRA?0 -
If only I wish I was in there no we had to move to another rented property but no Internet so trying to get in when I can. Still awaiting new mortgage offer from abbey and letter of authorisation for the solicitor. They agreed to release sale monies but want MY money returned to them after sale complete and sol not happy to do that. Still trying to sort out insurance issue on sale house too. Will keep you updated. Any news in yours?
Tracie
No news yet. Put claim in to SRA compensation fund for return of my money apparently a report was written and sent to Wolstenholmes for comment at the end of last week they have until this Friday to raise objections as to why I should not get my money back. If no objections then should have money back by end of the month with completion shortly thereafter hopefully but with each day that goes by my expectations lessen. I just want this to be all over.0 -
Listen my advice to everyone is you claim every and anything. As I understand it all compensation claims excluding monies directly paid to Wolstenholmes should be claimed from the LCS but I would suggest you only do so once your claim has crystalised, i.e once you know what all your losses amount to, so when all is corrected, but check as to the time frame in which you must submit your claim. For me it is I think either 28 days or two months from receiving my money from the SRA compensation fund I then have to make my claim for "compensation" to the LCS and believe me I will be claiming everything although it is fair to say not all my losses can be quantified.
I think it is unfair for the SRA to be laying down criteria as to what can and cannot be claimed when they have been so unhelpful in providing any useful valid information, my claim will begin like this:
Interest on my deposit money sent to Wolstenholmes, the fees charged by the bank for sending it, Stamp duty, council tax (as where I was moving to the payments were less), the difference between my rent and mortgage as rent is more than mortgage, PHONE CALLS for having to call all these 0845 numbers. Get a national number like every other professional body and stop making money out of people who have already been fleeced, postage, pain killers, stress, inconvenience, negligence, poor service, solicitors fees, VAT increase, my time for dealing with SRA and LCS, a ruined Christmas and New Year, prescription charges, product fee, basically put down everything you can think of.
The SRA/LCS will be dealing with an unprecedented number of claims and so having never dealt with something on this scale they are not in a position currently to say what people can and cannot claim for especially when people have been made homeless and forced to endure stress and anxiety.0 -
Horrified_Solicitor wrote: »I think this only extends to sums which are paid out in the meantime by the SRA to get transactions completed. If a transaction has been completed, but done negligently, then I think the client is urged to pursue a claim via their own solicitor. Given that WH is desperately unpopular among the profession, there will be no shortage of solicitors itching to take claims on and given what has happened, their insurers will be very much on the back foot.
1) The claims against the insurer will be taken by the SRA with the LCS & DWF. I know this from experience in other matters.
2) I disagree that anybody should make the claims through their own Solicitors. The reason for this is - and anybody who has previously made a successful claim through the LCS or SRA Compensation Fund will know this - that the LCS & SRA Compensation Fund will not award legal fees for the process of making a claim.The whole of that lot should be thrown in jail. Why is it that it took hours for my money to leave my account but weeks later I am still completing paperwork for the recovery of my money. And above all that the SRA have written a report following my claim to the compensation fund have sent the report to Wolstenholmes for comment/objection. Please explain why????? I have submitted every single bit of proof that shows the money went into their account from my account there is an electronic paper trail that PROVES where my money went....
Whilst I accept that the SRA and LCS have never had to deal with such a huge scale of claims I can't help but think it is there own fault for taking so long to act. How many of us on here complained months ago to the LCS about Wolstenholmes. Did the LCS pass the information on to the SRA? Also the profession needs to wake up to the fact that this hiving off of regulation between the Law Society, Legal Complaints Service and Solicitors Regulation Authority is not working it is confusing having to call two different organisations to make the same complaint.
The confusion is that people have not understood the procedure. In addition people incorrectly think that all 3 bodies are regulators which is wrong.
Let me explain a few things (this only applies to England & Wales and to Solicitors - not to Legal Executives or Barristers):
The regulator is the Solicitors Regulation Authority ("SRA"). The SRA are responsible for pursuing disciplinary action against Solicitors through the Solicitors Disciplinary Board. They regulate Solicitors, and prepare the Code of Conduct for Solicitors.
Within the SRA there is also the Compensation Fund - which is just like the Financial Services Compensation Fund ("FSCS") for financial institutions - and covers claims by customers against a Solicitor that is either bankrupt or no longer in business for whatever reason.
They also have the ARP which is a form of Professional Indemnity Insurance for Solicitors who cannot get mainstream Professional Indemnity Insurance from a mainstream insurer.
Complaints to the SRA can be made by other Solicitors, Barristers & Legal Executives (ILEX members) and are made regarding breaches of the Solicitors Code of Conduct (i.e. negligence or fraud, but not necessarily mistakes or temporary incompetence).
Complaints to the SRA are also lodged by the LCS, if the LCS having reviewed the customers complaint consider it to be in breach of the Solicitors Code of Conduct. Complaints made direct to the SRA by a customer will automatically be referred to the LCS.
There is also the SRA Fraud & Confidential Intelligence Bureau ("FCIB"). The FCIB accepts tip-offs regarding fraud being done by Solicitors.
The SRA does not award compensation as such. The Compensation Fund is to cover monies that were paid to a Solicitor to pay to the client - or seller only. For the purpose of clarity I call this "direct losses".
Then there's the Law Society. This is a membership body. They represent Solicitors to Parliament (though they don't really need any more representation there!), the Welsh Assembly, and co-ordinate events for Solicitors.
Complaints are not made to the Law Society. Where the Law Society receives a complaint from a customer of a Solicitor it is referred to the LCS and it's from another Solicitor, Barrister or Legal Executive it is referred to the SRA.
Then there's the Legal Complaints Service ("LCS"). The LCS deal with complaints from customers about Solicitors who acted for them. The LCS award what should be referred to as "consequential losses" and "pecuniary damages".
The confusion is that "compensation" covers all these 3 types of losses.
Pecuniary Damages are awarded for stress, aggravation, hassle and suchlike.
Consequential Losses are (for example); loss of stamp duty paid to WH - but not paid by WH, expenses paid to another Solicitor to complete the services not completed by WH, and other monetary losses.
Claims for monies held by WH but not paid out should therefore be made to the SRA Compensation Fund and claims for consequential losses and pecuniary damages should be made to the LCS.
The LCS will then make an award and that award will be paid from the SRA Compensation Fund, but the LCS will make that claim (though not the claim for direct losses which must be made directly to the SRA Compensation Fund by the customer - or the customer's representative).
The SRA Compensation Fund will take all the monies from the WH client account once these are reconciled (by DWF with the assistance of accountants). The shortfall will temporarily be covered by the Compensation Fund. The SRA will then claim against the Professional Indemnity Insurance or ARP - whichever covered those involved - and may attempt, together with the PII insurer/ARP may make a civil or criminal claim against those involved.
Hope all's clear now.Horrified_Solicitor wrote: »I suspect that this is because as the costs of the intervention and the compensation will be claimed from the solicitors responsible, they have to be allowed to comment before payments are made.
I agree that where solicitors have been misappropriating money, they should always be prosecuted for fraud, theft and false accounting. Additionally, they should always be bankrupted for the money they have cost others.After speaking the Chief Operating Officer at Solicitors Regulation Authority I understand that not all the solicitors that had owned Wolstenholmes LLP have been suspended or are currently being investigated. Complaints about Wolstenholmes a long time before the SRA intervention were not investigated as the Law Society would not investigate complaints unless you were a client of Wolstenholmes. Although the Legal Services Commission paid out compensation for maladministration they stated that they would not provide this information to the Law Society as it did not come under their Memorandum of Understanding with the Law Society. Lets hope the Law Society/SRA will change their rules to investigate ALL complaints and change their protocols with the Legal Services Commission and other bodies to share information in order to avoid future cases like Wolstenholmes.
The Legal Services Commission ("LSC") is not the same as the Legal Complaints Service ("LCS"). The LSC deals with legal aid and legal policy in the UK.
Complaints made to the LSC are regarding legal aid providers, not generally against any Solicitor (this can included Barristers & Legal Executives as well).
The reason complaints made to the LCS are not automatically shared with the SRA is very simple. Not every complaint relates to a breach of the Solicitors Code of Conduct.
The same argument that vfmfca makes could be made regarding financial institutions. Why doesn't the Financial Ombudsman Service ("FOS") refer copies of all complaints to the Financial Services Authority ("FSA"). It's simple. Not every complaint relates to a breach of FSA rules. In fact, most don't.
Making such a petition would be useless, a waste of time and never get anywhere, because it plainly doesn't make sense and would substantially increase the costs involved for the SRA - which every other Solicitor, and consequentially, customers, would pay for!Horrified_Solicitor wrote: »This is only partly true. The complaints being made were service complaints ie. about the quality of service. The SRA will only investigate these at the behest of a client because it is the client who is paying for the service, not a third party. Complaints about professional matters eg. non compliance with an undertaking to pay a mortgage, can be made by anyone.Must admit that the SRA/LCS are confusing me re. Compensation
From the link
"Whilst the LCS can award compensation for distress and inconvenience, the amount may be small in circumstances such as yours. There is no guarantee that the solicitors will be able to pay the award. Awards of compensation for distress and inconvenience directed by the LCS are not covered by the Compensation Fund. The solicitor's insurers may pay out if the LCS makes an award, but this is not guaranteed"
So the SRA will pay, if they deem it proper, to compensate for money lost to WH and hopefully the cost of a new solicitor to sort everything out.
Then if any of us feel we have been stressed and inconvenienced by this whole shambles we have to make a separate claim to the LCS for compensation!??
The SRA press releases are confusing. In my experience the Compensation Fund will pay out for the consequential losses and pecuniary damages, but this may have changed. If this has changed such claims will be made against the PII insurer/ARP by the LCS, whom, once an award is made will provide such information.
To clarify again:
Consequential Losses & Pecuniary Damages - Claim from LCS
Direct Losses (fees owed to you or to someone else on your behalf by WH) - Claim from SRA Compensation FundHorrified_Solicitor wrote: »The LCS exists primarily to reimburse money that has been nicked by solicitors. Compensation for stress and inconvenience is a separate matter, and is more properly part of a negligence claim against WH, which falls to be deal with by their insurers. Unless you've actually suffered a nervous breakdown, the awards under this head of damages, are usually pretty small, and you're hard pressed to get more than say, £1,000.
The LCS exists primarily to award consequential losses and pecuniary damages. It is the SRA Compensation Fund that exists for monies nicked by Solicitors.homelessmat wrote: »Whilst I've not had a nervous breakdown, being homeless for a number of weeks with no indication of when it might be resolved is not something I would want to wish on anyone. Particularly around Xmas time.
I wonder whether I can put a claim to the compensation fund for a few years supply of "Just for men" to cover the numerous grey hairs that have sprouted on my head since this whole debarcle startedThat should be claimed from the LCS, not the SRA Compensation Fund.
Your guess is as good as mine as I am equally confused but take heart as I think the SRA and LCS are confused also!The SRA link I posted says the claim is to the SRA compensation fund for money lost to WH. LCS is for the nervous breakdown!
That is the confusion.homelessmat wrote: »So is a solicitor failing to complete on a purchase, despite having all funds available in the solicitor's client account, poor service or negligence?anotherproblem wrote: »Hi - At what stage should one put in a claim for a second soliciters fees and the land registry fee? I have already paid WS but the property is not registered. I have paid another soliciter to try to sort out the registration (this will be done with great difficulty as the sellers file and the sellors have long gone) So far I have paid £400. but I suspect that it will cost a lot more. So should I put in a claim now or wait untill it is sorted. If it ever gets sorted and where do I claim from. Thank you
Such a claim should be made to the LCS, and can be made in writing.anotherproblem wrote: »Hi if I go the route of letting the solicitor put in the claim for compensation what is it that I am actually asking them to do. I know it sounds daft but it seems that there may be 2 claims 1 for the soliciters fees to complete the work that WS did not complete (even though they had full payment) and the other for stress and the resulting problems of that. And should I ask them to do that now or when everything is sorted. Thank you
The claims you have described are consequential losses and pecuniary damages and as such come under the remit of the LCS.
If you were buying a property and the bank paid everything to WH client account, and WH didn't pay it out; that would be claimed from the SRA Compensation Fund.Catwoman8950 wrote: »This is what I've been told by DWF. Why, oh why do we have to deal with 3 separate entities?
Bar getting your file from them, you should not be consulting with them, as this is not their remit.Catwoman8950 wrote: »My solicitor has had to give an undertaking to my purchaser's solicitors that I will pay the Stamp Duty for him (otherwise he is likely to back out and I will lose the sale) and all because of Wolstenholmes! I've a good mind to add this to my compensation claim but just who do I claim it off? LCS? SRA?Listen my advice to everyone is you claim every and anything. As I understand it all compensation claims excluding monies directly paid to Wolstenholmes should be claimed from the LCS but I would suggest you only do so once your claim has crystalised, i.e once you know what all your losses amount to, so when all is corrected, but check as to the time frame in which you must submit your claim. For me it is I think either 28 days or two months from receiving my money from the SRA compensation fund I then have to make my claim for "compensation" to the LCS and believe me I will be claiming everything although it is fair to say not all my losses can be quantified.I think it is unfair for the SRA to be laying down criteria as to what can and cannot be claimed when they have been so unhelpful in providing any useful valid information, my claim will begin like this:
The criteria are laid down by Law, and not the SRA themselves.Interest on my deposit money sent to Wolstenholmes, the fees charged by the bank for sending it, Stamp duty, council tax (as where I was moving to the payments were less), the difference between my rent and mortgage as rent is more than mortgage, PHONE CALLS for having to call all these 0845 numbers. Get a national number like every other professional body and stop making money out of people who have already been fleeced, postage, pain killers, stress, inconvenience, negligence, poor service, solicitors fees, VAT increase, my time for dealing with SRA and LCS, a ruined Christmas and New Year, prescription charges, product fee, basically put down everything you can think of.The SRA/LCS will be dealing with an unprecedented number of claims and so having never dealt with something on this scale they are not in a position currently to say what people can and cannot claim for especially when people have been made homeless and forced to endure stress and anxiety.0 -
picklesjsw wrote: »Any claims against the "professional" indemnity insurance will be dealt with by the SRA and DWF (as the appointed intervening Solicitors), not made by the customers who have suffered.
Claims should be lodged with the Compensation Fund and LCS (where asking for compensation) and the SRA with DWF will build up relevant accounts of the amount needed to be paid out.
Whatever is not covered by the balance of the WH's bank accounts will be temporarily covered by the SRA Compensation Fund, who together with DWF and whoever they retain will seek to recover as much as possible from the "professional" indemnity insurance policy (or ARP if they were covered by that instead of PII) and possibly through criminal or civil proceedings against those involved in WH.
At the moment we are being told there are five involved with the fraud.
Would they have had there personal bank accounts and assets frozen?0 -
No news yet. Put claim in to SRA compensation fund for return of my money apparently a report was written and sent to Wolstenholmes for comment at the end of last week they have until this Friday to raise objections as to why I should not get my money back. If no objections then should have money back by end of the month with completion shortly thereafter hopefully but with each day that goes by my expectations lessen. I just want this to be all over.
Were did they send this report. If Wolstenholmes still exist where are they operating from? Or is someone else acting for Wolstenholmes?0 -
picklesjsw wrote: »I disagree with both these contentions.
1) The claims against the insurer will be taken by the SRA with the LCS & DWF. I know this from experience in other matters.
2) I disagree that anybody should make the claims through their own Solicitors. The reason for this is - and anybody who has previously made a successful claim through the LCS or SRA Compensation Fund will know this - that the LCS & SRA Compensation Fund will not award legal fees for the process of making a claim.
The confusion is that people have not understood the procedure. In addition people incorrectly think that all 3 bodies are regulators which is wrong.
Let me explain a few things (this only applies to England & Wales and to Solicitors - not to Legal Executives or Barristers):
The regulator is the Solicitors Regulation Authority ("SRA"). The SRA are responsible for pursuing disciplinary action against Solicitors through the Solicitors Disciplinary Board. They regulate Solicitors, and prepare the Code of Conduct for Solicitors.
Within the SRA there is also the Compensation Fund - which is just like the Financial Services Compensation Fund ("FSCS") for financial institutions - and covers claims by customers against a Solicitor that is either bankrupt or no longer in business for whatever reason.
They also have the ARP which is a form of Professional Indemnity Insurance for Solicitors who cannot get mainstream Professional Indemnity Insurance from a mainstream insurer.
Complaints to the SRA can be made by other Solicitors, Barristers & Legal Executives (ILEX members) and are made regarding breaches of the Solicitors Code of Conduct (i.e. negligence or fraud, but not necessarily mistakes or temporary incompetence).
Complaints to the SRA are also lodged by the LCS, if the LCS having reviewed the customers complaint consider it to be in breach of the Solicitors Code of Conduct. Complaints made direct to the SRA by a customer will automatically be referred to the LCS.
There is also the SRA Fraud & Confidential Intelligence Bureau ("FCIB"). The FCIB accepts tip-offs regarding fraud being done by Solicitors.
The SRA does not award compensation as such. The Compensation Fund is to cover monies that were paid to a Solicitor to pay to the client - or seller only. For the purpose of clarity I call this "direct losses".
Then there's the Law Society. This is a membership body. They represent Solicitors to Parliament (though they don't really need any more representation there!), the Welsh Assembly, and co-ordinate events for Solicitors.
Complaints are not made to the Law Society. Where the Law Society receives a complaint from a customer of a Solicitor it is referred to the LCS and it's from another Solicitor, Barrister or Legal Executive it is referred to the SRA.
Then there's the Legal Complaints Service ("LCS"). The LCS deal with complaints from customers about Solicitors who acted for them. The LCS award what should be referred to as "consequential losses" and "pecuniary damages".
The confusion is that "compensation" covers all these 3 types of losses.
Pecuniary Damages are awarded for stress, aggravation, hassle and suchlike.
Consequential Losses are (for example); loss of stamp duty paid to WH - but not paid by WH, expenses paid to another Solicitor to complete the services not completed by WH, and other monetary losses.
Claims for monies held by WH but not paid out should therefore be made to the SRA Compensation Fund and claims for consequential losses and pecuniary damages should be made to the LCS.
The LCS will then make an award and that award will be paid from the SRA Compensation Fund, but the LCS will make that claim (though not the claim for direct losses which must be made directly to the SRA Compensation Fund by the customer - or the customer's representative).
The SRA Compensation Fund will take all the monies from the WH client account once these are reconciled (by DWF with the assistance of accountants). The shortfall will temporarily be covered by the Compensation Fund. The SRA will then claim against the Professional Indemnity Insurance or ARP - whichever covered those involved - and may attempt, together with the PII insurer/ARP may make a civil or criminal claim against those involved.
Hope all's clear now.
The reason complaints are referred to the Solicitors involved to review is because it is a basic right of justice (yeah, I know, where's the justice when you need it!) that everybody can respond to allegations made against them.
I think vfmfca is VERY confused.
The Legal Services Commission ("LSC") is not the same as the Legal Complaints Service ("LCS"). The LSC deals with legal aid and legal policy in the UK.
Complaints made to the LSC are regarding legal aid providers, not generally against any Solicitor (this can included Barristers & Legal Executives as well).
The reason complaints made to the LCS are not automatically shared with the SRA is very simple. Not every complaint relates to a breach of the Solicitors Code of Conduct.
The same argument that vfmfca makes could be made regarding financial institutions. Why doesn't the Financial Ombudsman Service ("FOS") refer copies of all complaints to the Financial Services Authority ("FSA"). It's simple. Not every complaint relates to a breach of FSA rules. In fact, most don't.
Making such a petition would be useless, a waste of time and never get anywhere, because it plainly doesn't make sense and would substantially increase the costs involved for the SRA - which every other Solicitor, and consequentially, customers, would pay for!
This is again not the case. Please see my comments above clarifying this topic.
I have explained the situation above.
The SRA press releases are confusing. In my experience the Compensation Fund will pay out for the consequential losses and pecuniary damages, but this may have changed. If this has changed such claims will be made against the PII insurer/ARP by the LCS, whom, once an award is made will provide such information.
To clarify again:
Consequential Losses & Pecuniary Damages - Claim from LCS
Direct Losses (fees owed to you or to someone else on your behalf by WH) - Claim from SRA Compensation Fund
Wrong again.
The LCS exists primarily to award consequential losses and pecuniary damages. It is the SRA Compensation Fund that exists for monies nicked by Solicitors.That should be claimed from the LCS, not the SRA Compensation Fund.
Wouldn't be surprised. Hope I've clarified the situation properly above.
Correct. (But money lost does not cover fees, only monies that were due to be paid out on your behalf or to you).
Poor service bordering on negligence.
Wait till it's sorted.
Such a claim should be made to the LCS, and can be made in writing.
I would recommend against instructing Solicitors to put in a claim for you. The LCS & SRA Compensation Fund will not cover fees paid to a Solicitor to deal with the claims for you.
The claims you have described are consequential losses and pecuniary damages and as such come under the remit of the LCS.
If you were buying a property and the bank paid everything to WH client account, and WH didn't pay it out; that would be claimed from the SRA Compensation Fund.
DWF are the Solicitors sorting out the files and reconciling the accounts.
Bar getting your file from them, you should not be consulting with them, as this is not their remit.
LCS. It covers consequential losses.
The LCS has its own methods of quantification.
The SRA Compensation Fund only covers direct losses. The consequential losses & pecuniary damages must be claimed from the LCS (who will make an award, but not pay it - that is done from the PII insurer or ARP, whichever insured WH).
The criteria are laid down by Law, and not the SRA themselves.
All those are consequential losses and pecuniary damages. Claim against the LCS, not SRA.
It's not an issue of what people can and can't claim for, it's an issue of how the LCS will quantify those complex claims.
This is an excellent post. I've been picked up on a couple of points which I concede - one was a typo, the other was based on my experience of making a complaint which might not have been typical.
Can it be made some sort of sticky because it cover an awful lot of the issues very succinctly?0
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