European Fine Wines

Rhino666

I have had three cold calls from this company. Not sure where they got my details from as have never expressed an interest in wine investment. Each time a different high pressure salesman/consultant using pretty cheap selling techniques.

Apparently they only make commission on the gains made by your wine investment. These average out at 15% per annum tax free.

I was kindly offered cases of 2008 Parma? at £1500 a case. I think it very likely that European fine wines would be making most of their money from an inflated selling/reduced buying price for these wines.

Each time I told the consultant that I had no money to invest but it has been difficult to terminate the conversations and after the third call I am warning others. My gut feeling is not good.

Does anyone have any experience of this company - have you been contacted ?

Reaper

Here is the Independant answering your very question:
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-should-i-invest-in-fine-wine-on-the-sayso-of-a-stranger-878010.html

Q. I recently received a cold call from a company called European Fine Wines (efwines.co.uk) about buying vintage wine. It's something I'm interested in, but I'm concerned about paying large sums of money to people who contact me over the phone. What should I do? SM, Clapham, south London
A. You are right to be cautious about cold-call investment offers, particularly as the buying and selling of wine is unregulated and pretty much anyone can call themselves an expert and flog you over-priced goods. And this is exactly what has happened in the past with some unscrupulous firms, which have taken a hefty upfront commission along the way. In the worse cases, companies may say they have the wine in storage and it may not exist.
European Fine Wines says it sources its wines from select suppliers and clients who want to sell on their holdings. It takes its commission as a percentage of the sale price of the wine. There is nothing inherently wrong with this.
However, if you are planning to buy fine wines, go to investdrinks.org, which explains the major scams and gives potential investors a checklist. It is also worth checking the price you're being quoted on winesearcher.com. Too cheap is as worrying as too expensive.
There are plenty of reputable wine brokers such as Berry Brothers & Rudd. These groups also offer wine funds, which obviously lack the appeal of owning the real thing but are regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) and will offer more protection.

k8r4u

Rhino666 wrote: »

...
Each time I told the consultant that I had no money to invest but it has been difficult to terminate the conversations and after the third call I am warning others.
...

Just say "Excuse me, I've told you that I'm not interested, and I'm now going to hang up.". Talk right over them if they won't do you the courtesy of listening to you.

Then hang up.

They probably get that response dozens of times a day, you won't be anywhere near the first person to drop the line on them.

Rhino666

Appreciate the comments - I would advise anyone else the same but at the end of the day they are not going to sell anything to me and I have not been rude.................yet.

I run websites and deal with the public all day long - being dismissive and quite frankly rude is often the best option in this circumstance but when your livelihood relies on getting people onside, it is not so easy.

Used to get a lot of door salesmen at my home and handled them too sensitively too but found a way around that - 100% effective....
Placed a notice on my front door - 'Warning!! - I am not polite to salemen - please do not call'. Anyone that calls now is dismissed summarily with no conscience - I highly recommend this type of action, although it obviously will not work on the telephone :-(

Sebbie2013

I wanted to put a matured endowment policy to work last year. I had been wanting to invest in wine for a while and took the trouble to investigate European Fine Wines at Company House last year. It all appeared to be above board, good accounts, no CCJs against any directors. I found no adverse write ups at that time so I went ahead with a purchase. I bought 2 x half cases of Latour 2004 for which I paid £5630 incl VAT. This is now in storage in a Bond Warehouse at Vinopolis. I have had a certificate from Vinopolis confirming receipt of the wine.

After the wine scams came to light I got worried and did more extensive research only to find them on a list of companies that charges over the odds for wine. I subsequently found I could have bought the same amount of Latour 2004 for £5268 from 2 other more reputable companies so saving £362. (wine-searcher.com gives a list of wines and reputable suppliers) Serves me right for not doing my due diligence properly first. :mad:

This company doesn't appear to sell wine that doesn't exist (like a lot of these scam wine investment companies do) but they are making plenty of profit from each sale from your pocket! This stupid error may well have wiped out any gain I might have made on the wine increasing in value. It would have to go up a massive amount to cover the extra I paid for it plus costs.

There are ongoing storage costs and insurance to pay, as well as capital gains tax if you sell and/or import tax if you take it out and drink it on UK soil. To move it out of storage you need to buy a special transport licence. European Fine Wines take a commission from any sale they arrange. All in all I have probably made a purchase of a liability rather than an asset. All I can do now is keep it for a few years and see if I can sell it for enough to break even.

Initially I was contacted by email, then by phone. A well spoken hard selling salesman called me several times - thank goodness I refused to buy more or to buy a more expensive wine like Mouton Rothschild or I'd be 10K out of pocket. The last call was yesterday. He was trying to find out if I wanted to 'add to my investment' and said that the 'Asian market for fine wine was strong over the Chinese New Year'.

If you are thinking of buying wine for investment, best to shop around first as for sure you'll get it cheaper elsewhere. In my opinion it may well be a high risk investment especially if we get a double dip in the economy and the bottom drops out of the luxury consumables market. If you like wine, just drink it and put your money somewhere else

Reaper

Sebbie2013 wrote: »

I wanted to put a matured endowment policy to work last year.... took the trouble to investigate European Fine Wines... After the wine scams came to light...

Wine scams came to light a long time ago. It's a shame your initial search did not include Google as this thread was around when you were buying and shows in the first page of results, as do at least 2 other sites warning you of the same thing.

In the end it is not a scam as such, just a poor deal the terms of which you agreed to at the outset, so as you say you have no easy way out.

oliversw

I would stay well clear of the wine industry, a few years ago I ordered a crate of wine costing me just over 3k, I found out that I was being over charged and cancelled within the cooling off period. I was then hassled for 3 months by the company saying they were going to take me to court, even though I told them I knew my rights (I studied law for 2 years)
So be very wary of wine companies they are nasty work

Ollie1981

My mum has just taken a cold call demanding to speak to me from European Fine Wines at a home I've not lived at for 12 years. He was agressive, fightening, very rude and wouldn't hang up the line from his end. He shouted that he was a friend of mine at university and played football with me there (he got the university right).

And to top it all off, when asked for his name, he was so unimaginative that he made up a name with the same surname as me!

How did he get my name, the university I went to, the sport I played at university, my mum and dad's telephone number and know I have an interest in fine wine?

Mikeyorks

The University year book then the telephone directory + a guess regarding the affinity for wine? How else do you think they line up cold calls other than via a modicum of research in the right potential earnings class?

RetiredInThailand

Nothing worth buying is ever sold by cold-callers. Just hang up.

CultureGranny

I've received three cold calls from this company, in spite of using the telephone preference service. They claim to have my name from a survey, which is possible. The approach and manner of all three callers is not what I would call professional: more barrow-boy than broker. They are far too keen to part me from my money to be a genuine offer. I have in mind the old adage 'If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is': an annual return of 14%, which they claim, certainly seems unlikely. My feminine intuition: don't touch them with a bargepole!