help please, any appreciated!!!!!!!

patacake58

Hi to all.
Hoping someone may have advice on this situation.
My stepmum has been in a nursing home for the past 7 years with severe alzheimers.
My father decided 3 years ago to do a severance of joint tenancy so he could protect his share of the house, to be passed on to me and my 2 sisters.
He very sadly passed away unexpectedly 6 weeks ago. I'm still quite stunned so please bear with me.
What we are now wondering is, can the council force us to sell the property to pay for her care?
If they can how does this work?
Do i have to contact them or do they have some way of knowing whats happened?
Thanks in advance for a reply, Pat

DiggerUK

Pat,
sad news about your father, hope everything settles down for you eventually.

If the tenancy is a "Tenancy in Common" (TIC) it could be that you will avoid charges.

We have a TIC with conditions attached for when our children inherit.
Difference is, we have this arrangement in place with both of us in good health. I don't know how a TIC that is 3 years in operation, taken out when one of the tenants was receiving care works out.
Do you have a legal advisor for the estate, you need to run this past them.

All the best.

margaretclare

I think there are differences between DiggerUK's plan and your father's. When he made this change your stepmum was already suffering from severe Alzheimer's, had been in a home for 4 years by then and it must have seemed obvious that she would never return home. So the actions he took then could possibly be construed as 'deliberate deprivation of assets'.

As DiggerUK says, you need informed and expert advice.

monkeyspanner

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Would I be correct in assuming that your Dad has left his share of the property to you and your sisters in his will?

As far as I am aware whilst your Dad was living in the house the value of the property would have been disregarded when assessing your stepmum's liability to payment of care home fees. As your Dad has died this is effectively a change of circumstance for your stepmum and the council should be informed. Before you do that you should try to be as fully informed as you can be as it is not unusual for councils to interpret the rules to their advantage and not always correctly. Could I suggest that in the first instance you contact the following charity who will give you advice on your situation. www.counselandcare.org.uk there are also other charities like help the aged who will provide advuce if needed.

It is unlikely that the council would force a sale of the house but they may put a charge on the value of the house to cover reassessed fees until such time as the property is sold or they may try to reassess your mum as though she has the value of her share of the house is is therefore liable to pay her fees. If this is the case the property may have to be sold in order to pay her fees unless you or your sisters have deep pockets and can cover her care home fees. Another alternative would be to rent the house to cover some of the fees.
If you would like more information on TIC there have been several discussions on the subject which you should be able to find by a forum search.

There is another angle that you may wish to explore. You say your stepmum has suffered from alzheimers for several years. If her medical needs are severe and complex it may be possible to claim Continuing healthcare funding from the NHS primary care trust in your stepmum's area. If successful the NHS would then cover all her care home fees irrespective of her financial situation. As you can imagine the NHS is not keen on promoting this statutory right and it is notoriously difficult to obtain CHC funding but if your stepmum's conditions are severe then she may be entitled. If this is of interest there is a thread (very long) on MSE which you can look at, here is a link http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/search.html?searchid=61669431

Does any family member have a power of attorney for your stepmum as it will be very difficult to deal with any of these matters without a POA? If there is not a POA, your stepmum's medical condition will prevent her from setting one up, so someone will need to apply for authority to act on her behalf to the office of the public guardian. Here is a link http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/about/about.htm

I am sure other people will be along to try to help on this thread and I hope things work out for you.

luiccia

margaretclare wrote: »

So the actions he took then could possibly be construed as 'deliberate deprivation of assets'.

Not at all.
The father was perfectly entitled to do as he pleased. If he wanted to sever the tenancy then there was nothing to stop him from doing this.

There has been no deprivation of assets. The father did not require care and has sadly now died.

Furthermore if the new owners of the father's share do not wish to sell the property, the lady's share of the house will be virtually worthless when it come to assessing her finances.

patacake58

Thanks very much to all replies, especially monkeyspanner, some much appreciated information given.
I have made an appointment today with citizens advice for the 15th of july. Thats the earliest i could get.
My father wouldn't have been legally allowed to do what he did if it was a deliberate deprevation of assets. The situation was further complicated in that my stepmum's 3 sons cut her off and never saw her for the seven years she has been in the nursing home. My father was very upset about this and we talked about it a lot. I thought at first that maybe they couldn't deal with the situation but after no birthday, mothers day or xmas cards and not even a phone call to see how their mother was it broke my dads heart.
He brought one of them up from when he was 6 and he and my stepmum were great parents to him.
My father was aware that if he died first then all would pass to his wife and then to her next of kin.
All he did was protect his next of kin.
No offence taken by the way, just trying to explain the situation.
Pat

monkeyspanner

Hi Pat
Deliberate deprivation of assets is a technical term given to attempts to remove assets from the scope of council assessment in relation to care home fees. Typically this is where assets are given away to relatives prior to the person needing care or when the posibility of care needs arise. In this case I believe Luiccia is correct in that the separation of a married couples assets whether in property, cash or investments does not reduce the assets of the person who needed care, and therefore there was no deprivation of assets.

In fact it is always advisable to separate joint accounts and jointly owned property when a person may enter care to prevent the council making assessments based on more than 50% of the asset.

localhero

I would say that luiccia was spot on in what they said. :T

The council may try and place a charge on the property, but the courts have set a precedent - and in fact the guidelines in `CRAG` also say that a share of a property held as tenants in common is effectively worthless.

Selling the property however would change things - for if the stepmum's share is turned into cash, then that would be potentially assessable for means testing.