Local authority damaged my car now their insurance wont pay out?

sporty1

i i dont know if this is the correct place to post it on so sorry if its not!
can anyone advise me please, on the 13 may 09 the local authority highways workers were strimming the grass verge in front of my home were my car was parked on the road, they do this all the time all up the road there are staggered grass verges, when they got to mine i could here them i looked up from my chair i was sitting onand saw them through the window, next minute i heard a load crack/noise, and the guy looked at his mate at the next verge he was cutting they looked at each other and looked at my car, my husband emmedietly went out and saw that they had smashed the side drivers window, the worker said ..oops "i,m sorry and he admitted he had done it, ( he couldnt not do really we saw him) and he said this happens all the time his other collegue and 2 othrs came over and apologised and said they would ring their boss now on the mobile phone and explain what they had done... he passed the phone to me after he spoke to his boss and his boss said it will be sorted you need to put it in writing and send it to the insurance dept at the town hall, to which i did, i have since been waiting for a reply.
when i sent the letter i gave all the information they needed and also the photocopy of the bill that it cost to get the window replaced so that they could refund me the money
I now 26 june09 have recieved a letter from the councils insurance Zurich, which basically says they are not going to pay the money it cost for the glass to be replace..( i had to get the glass replaced at the same dy as the incident as it was absoloutly throwing it down and the glass was shattered and my interior would of been soaking wet and damaged had it been left.).. on the letter it says
Quote ;We advise there is no automatic right to compensationbefoe any recompense can be made it will be necessary for you to demonstrate that there has been negligence on the part of our customer ( the council )
Whilst our client accepts that the incident occured they wish to add that there was nothing they could do t prevent it.Prior to the work, a visual check for stones etc, of the loation was undertaken and all saftey checks for stones etc and all saftey guards on the strimmers were in place, as such they believe they did everything that could have reasonabl expected of them and as such cannot accept negligence on this occassion.
Whilst we understand that you will not be happy with this decision we enclose details of similar matters which were decided in courts which will enable you to understand the rasoning behind our decision.

In the circumstances whilst we are naturally symphathetic we regret we are unable to consider a claim for compensation as it would not appear that our customer ( the council) has been negligent.

Now thats the letter i have had back from the insurance...
i think this is a disgrace they admit that this incident took place they even said on the day dont worry it will get sorted , but now the report obviously they have sent the insurance....there saying because they had guards on there strimmers and visualy looked for stones this excludes them from paying out for the damage to my car ( they never look for stones , they go straight in with the strimmers).
Surley they cant get away with damaging peoples propert admitting it saying sorry on the day , then coming up with this excuse not to pay out,
Id like to see me do damage to one of there buildings and say " oops i did everything that was reasonable to prevent this incident occuring " they would accept thayt as an excuse ....they would have me up in cout "
as anyone any advise please
i rang the insurance but the guy apparantly who made the decision and sent the letter wasnt in, the womwn i spoke to said " what do you expect them to do Get on all fours and pick up every single stone "... really annoyed me , no i expect them not to damage my car and now bail out , if it means them picking the stones up to prevent the incident ..THEN YES
has anyone any advise please
thanks

dacouch

In a way they are correct, for them to be liable under UK Law then the Law looks at it in the way could the damage have been "Reasonably" avoided. If it could not have been reasonably avoided then they are not at fault.

I would suggest you use their letter to your advantage and ask for the written record of them checking for stones before they started. If they have not checked for stones (Which would be a known hazard to them) then you can argue they have not taken reasonable measures to prevent the damage.

You could always film them starting at a different verge and if this showed they just get their strimmers out and start working it would help your case or if any of your neighboors witnessed them just starting without checking then this would be good evidence.

You may find a well worded letter requesting written proof they had performed a check for stones may make them just pay the claim to avoid protracted admin work for them when they know they may lose

pedro123456

Sporty,

You have just witnessed the Insurance Company limbo dancing under a grass snakes belly, it is disgusting how they are allowed to try and get away without settling your obvious claim, again it’s a case of their greed outweighing their moral, ethical commitments, the fact that they will have got it sown up legally shouldn’t affect them doing what is morally/ethically correct.

So what to do?,

1- Write a letter to the Council Insurance department, and inform them that the Council Employees were responsible for the damage to your car, and you are holding them the council responsible. Photocopy the letter from Zurich and send them a copy.

If their insurance company want to find a loophole to avoid paying them, then that’s their problem not yours, inform the council you are claiming off THEM not their insurance as this is their job.

2- Write a letter to your local MP, photocopy Zurich letter, and council letter.

3- As dacouch says, observe for the workmen “actually” checking for stones prior to cutting grass (although they probably will outside your house for a while), ask neighbours to do the same, make no mention of it to the council at this stage, save this till later. Ask them to documents Dates/times, how quick they start work after arriving at job, if/how they are noted to check for stones/hazards before stimming etc

4- Consider legal advice, a free short consultation with a local solicitor maybe?
Is a strimmer the right tool for a grass verge, isn’t a strimmer for long grass or of limited use, is it negligent if say the grass verge is large enough for a mower?

Anyway letter to council/MP first and let us know what they have to say. And we will take it from there

TighterThanTwoCoatsOfPain

I had the exact same thing happen about 4-5 years ago and got exactly that letter back from the same insurer.

Mine was the drivers window on a corsa and was £48 to replace (although i had a garage so was done the next day not "there and then". I didnt pursue it myself.

pedro123456

I didnt pursue it myself.

Well tighter that’s why the IC get away with not paying, they send out well versed intimidating (but immoral/unethical) letters in the hope that you as a individual drop the matter.

IMO it’s greed without conscience, no wonder there is no public confidence in Insurance products.

dacouch

The problem is the council will have performed Risk Assesements to work out what the potential dangers are. The council staff will have to work under these guidelines eg wear the appropriate safety gear, check the equipment is working, check for stones etc etc.

When they get a claim in the Insurers will send the letters you received as they assume the workers abide by the Health and Safety Guidelines drawn up from the rism assesements. The chances are the workmen have not bothered checking for stones so it is a case of demonstrating they did not / do not follow them.

Pedro has given some good advice on this, I suspect they will check for stones for a while as their superviser will have reiterated how important it is they check for stones and that they are probably breaching their contracts by not following H&S

However if the workmen did perform the checks then the council are not liable as they have taken reasonable steps to avoid stones damaging people / property.

mattymoo

Pedro - this is not the insurance company wiggling but the council.

The council pays the insurer to deal with any third party claims for property damage and injury arising out of their operations, same as any UK business really.

The insurer will have received a report from the council detailing the systems they have in place to prevent this type of incident. This will include method statements, risk assessments, strimmer guards etc. The insurers will take this information and use it to state their defence / declinature of the claim based on principles ensconced in English law.

It is up to the claimant to show that they have failed to follow these procedures and that as a result of that failure, they were negligent. Dacouch has given some good advice in that respect.

Trust me, if the council could not show they had procedures in place then the insurers would be settling asap as there is little merit / cost effectiveness in fighting claims at this level. Local authorities have normally got pretty resilient systems in place as their insurance costs have rocketed over the last decade or so due to pavement trip incidents etc. These costs (to the local authority) will simply be recovered by means of increased community taxes.

mattymoo

sporty1 wrote: »

Whilst we understand that you will not be happy with this decision we enclose details of similar matters which were decided in courts which will enable you to understand the rasoning behind our decision.

sporty - can you post the case citations the insurers gave you? Will usually follow the format "smith vs jones". It is rare for a cited case to precisely match the incident being claimed for and we might be able to point out key differences for you that you could use to argue your point.

No promises mind - it is a complex area.

pedro123456

I agree mattymoo, it is down to the Council, my point really though is, whether it’s the Council or the IC, its of no relevance to sporty.

Sporty parks their car along come the council workmen and damage it, the workmen apologise, call their supervisor, who again apologises, and reassures sporty that it will be sorted, as long as sporty lets the council Insurance department know.

Sporty should not be involved (IMO) with dialogue with the IC.

IMO the costs for the damage should have been submitted to the council and sporty should be reimbursed, and that should have been that, the Council can argue with the IC to recover its costs.

That’s why I suggested contacting the council and local MP , in the first instance, while collecting data should sporty have to change tack.

As sure as eggs are eggs sporty should not have to stand the costs.

sporty1

Hi thanks for your support from all of the replys... Surley if as they have stated, they do visual checks for stones (which they didnt , but i cant prove) my word against theres
If they would have done a visual check properly my argument is ...that they would have seen the stone/stones and then removed them and it it wouldnt of flicked up when cutting this grass and broke my window ? i am so annoyed that the authority can get away with this attitude of damaging propert and not pay the bill for it.
Is that like me saying to the car insurance..sorry i did everything i could to prevent an an accident "i pressed my brakes but they didnt work and i bumped the car in front at the lights..""so therefore i am not negligance" as i did everything i could to prevent it) I ,d like to see that excuse working for us .
thanks

dacouch

Pedro this case is slightly different than normal in that a Council is involved, what councils tend to do Insurance wise is have a Liability Policy with an excess typically between £5000 and £50000. In effect they Self Insure for the small claims and rely on the Insurance Policy (Usually with Zurich) to pay the larger claims.

As well as having a big excess they normally employ an Insurance company to handle all of their claims even if they are below the excess as it is easier for the council than employing suitably trained staff.

The cost of the posters glass I'm guessing is circa £150, even a normal private company would generally have an excess of £250 to £500 so would settle this themselves.

So although it is an Insurance Company writing the letter they are in effect (On this case) acting on behalf of the council who would be who actually write the cheque