Harassment and/or Unlawful Eviction?

Bamboozle_2

franklee wrote: »

I'd ring up the letting agent and arrange a viewing See if they let you in.

Do check and double check for that pesky S21 having been sneaked past you early on, as sivercar already said.

Needing an appointment to go in would include the garden, but hard to enforce that. I chucked a repair man off a balcony accessed from outside by ladder as he didn't have an appointment, he wasn't happy. (I mean made him leave).

We have so little paperwork from them it's ridiculous, so definitely no S21. We never even got our inventory signed and returned from them after we had to heavily amend it. We literally only have our tenancy agreement (which my wife has picked apart for hours on end to be sure of everything). This is the first time they've ever let their property out having tried to sell it for a while. Sadly they're not even vaguely cut out for dealing with tenants. I think they thought they'd just get money and that would be that. It took us about six weeks to get the non functioning boiler fixed when we moved in, and they even tried make us feel bad about wanting heating. We've been nothing but reasonable and have had nothing but abuse and underhandedness back.

clutton_2

""If they want us out they can do it correctly""

you may be cutting off your nose to spite your face here - if you are to stand any chance of getting any of your deposit back you will have to communicate with your landlord - whether that is a pleasant prospect or not. if you let them do it by the book to get you out , you will end up with a CCJ.

write them a letter if you cannot bear to talk to them - you will need an appointment for the final inventory and if they are such *rses i suggest you are there when it is done and i also suggest that you insist on signing it there and then otherwise you will probably never get your deposit back

Jowo_2

How do you propose to find a future landlord to accept you as tenants when you've forced the previous one to evict you? What are your plans to side-step the future referencing process that will mark you out as an unreliable tenant?

Why are you miffed that the property is being marketed for future tenants after you have deliberately failed to inform them of your plans? It's quite normal for a tenant and landlord to discuss whether to renew or not in advance of the end of the fixed term.

Why don't you just leave at the end of the tenancy if you aren't happy there?

You've made it clear that they are 'accidental' landlords which means they are likely to be naive about their obligations and have made mistakes. It's a shame that this has given you a sense of entitlement to deliberately break your obligations in return.

Bamboozle_2

I am not, nor intend to, break any obligations or do anything incorrectly out of spite. I'm sorry this thread seems to have got derailed, I had originally said I'd leave the history out of it to try to stop it getting clouded. There is a LOT of back story to this a LONG list of things they've done to harass us, but NONE of it is relevant to these two very simple questions.

They are advertising this house as being available in a months time, without any due notice or correct procedure. I have NEVER said we are doing anything untoward back, nor am I suggesting we are going to do anything that will require a court order to get us out.

We fully intend to get out and get out properly and by the book, so please stop acting as if I've said we won't.

I posted asking two simple questions, hoping to avoid all the 'can't we just get along' posts I knew it would invoke, when all I wanted was an answer to a legal question.

If anyone does have an answer to the original questions then please do answer, but I didn't post here with the intent of getting into arguments about the correct way to leave a tenancy, etc.

Jowo_2

In the thread you posted on Landlordzone, you indicated that you already told the agent that you were unlikely to stay on because you found the landlords to be terrible. If you gave the impression you were not going to renew, I can't understand your bafflement that they are seeking new tenants.

"our lease (assured shorthold) expires at the end of July. We have not given notice that we are leaving on this day, nor have we received two months notice or an s21 at any point."

The expiration of a fixed term contract does not require notice from either party (the presence of a break-clause excepted). It just requires courtesy and communication from both parties to agree whether or not to renew.

Bamboozle_2

Jowo wrote: »

In the thread you posted on Landlordzone, you indicated that you already told the agent that you were unlikely to stay on because you found the landlords to be terrible. If you gave the impression you were not going to renew, I can't understand your bafflement that they are seeking new tenants.

"our lease (assured shorthold) expires at the end of July. We have not given notice that we are leaving on this day, nor have we received two months notice or an s21 at any point."

The expiration of a fixed term contract does not require notice from either party (the presence of a break-clause excepted). It just requires courtesy and communication from both parties to agree whether or not to renew.

Simply saying to the agent (who isn't managing the property) that we are considering leaving is not giving notice and does not 100% mean that we won't be staying. Obviously there are other factors present, like whether it would be possible to find another suitable house before then, etc.

If no notice is given on the termination of a contract, then the contract continues as a Periodic Tenancy until the landlord decides to end it. The landlord is required to give 2 months notice if they do not intend to renew the contract, as they have failed to do that, they legally cannot rent this house out on the day they are advertising. As they have not given adequate notice, the tenancy will continue as a Periodic Tenancy, as neither of us have given notice.

I am confused as to where you think we have done something wrong. We have done nothing but try to live in peace, but have been continuously harassed. We are not required to inform anyone if we intend to continue on the tenancy, as us not saying anything is classed as us intending to stay.

annberlin

Bamboozle wrote: »

Simply saying to the agent (who isn't managing the property) that we are considering leaving is not giving notice and does not 100% mean that we won't be staying. Obviously there are other factors present, like whether it would be possible to find another suitable house before then, etc.

If no notice is given on the termination of a contract, then the contract continues as a Periodic Tenancy until the landlord decides to end it. The landlord is required to give 2 months notice if they do not intend to renew the contract, as they have failed to do that, they legally cannot rent this house out on the day they are advertising. As they have not given adequate notice, the tenancy will continue as a Periodic Tenancy, as neither of us have given notice.

Y

I am confused as to where you think we have done something wrong. We have done nothing but try to live in peace, but have been continuously harassed. We are not required to inform anyone if we intend to continue on the tenancy, as us not saying anything is classed as us intending to stay.

Yes you are right if you have not been given 2 months notice by landlord and you have not given him/her 1 months notice then their actions are very strange indeed .However as has been suggested earlier it is now time to ask what is going on.Do the landlords have an agent or do you rent directly from them?If the latter then you will need to speak to them but if they have an agent then all your dealings should be through them.Personnally think if it were me would find something else with a better landlord.Hope this is of help.:beer:

silvercar

They could be looking for a tenant, in case you leave at the end of the fixed term without giving any notice. You are fully entitled to do this and so looking for tenants could be a back up plan from the landlord. With your failure to communicate, the landlord is just covering themselves.

clutton_2

you have clearly had issues with your landlord and you are now trying to make life as difficult as possible for them by not discussing your plans with them - at least be honest about your behaviour

Jowo_2

Bamboozle wrote: »

We are not required to inform anyone if we intend to continue on the tenancy, as us not saying anything is classed as us intending to stay.

It's not a legal requirement, it's a courtesy, for landlords and tenants approaching the end of the fixed term to discuss the end of renewal of it. In the same way, a tenant is not legally obliged to permit viewings of it by prospective replacement tenants. Given that this is often the way the original tenant has found their next home, it's a courtesty to facilitate this.

You are practising a degree of double-think - you are not happy with the tenancy and gave the impression you were leaving but won't do this formally, you won't communicate to the agent/landlord but expect formal communication back, you say that you are going to do things properly when you leave but only when you get around to finding a place to suit, you intend to force the landlord into issuing you an S21 which will now take you past the end of the fixed term when you should have left.

If it's the case that you are only going to leave when you are issued with an S21, that you haven't found anywhere to move to yet at the end of the fixed term, that it's your intention not to renew the current agreement but to let it lapse into a periodic agreement while the 2 months notice takes effect, then why are you telling people on a forum instead of the landlord with whom you have a contract?

You run the risk of finding it hard to be accepted as tenants by future landlords. Despite the fact that your current landlords are amateurish and unprofessional, a tenancy is also about communication and relationships. Once a landlord finds out a previous one has been forced to issue an S21 to a tenant who won't cooperate with viewings, stays on past the fixed term but won't communicate their intentions about the future of the tenancy, they are not going to think 'oh, well, that's their legal right' but 'sounds awkward'.