Confusing Reduancy situation

RubyRue

Thanks Pete, I've made a list of the questions you suggested.

No I don't think Unison will help as he is not a member, employment matters I think are only for members, if it were personal injury or something outside of work then they possibly could.

RubyRue

OH went to CAB and spoke to ACAS yesterday and they confirmed that they are potentially in breach of process. The rules regarding discipline and dismissal changed in April but that doesn't apply to redundancies so I'm guessing the documentation on the ACAS site regarding redundancies is the current code of practice.

OH also spoke to a solicitor yesterday, the confirmed again that they are potentially in breach and they recommended aswell raising a grievance in the Fridays meeting regarding the breach of process.

One of the others at risk of redundancy spoke to OH yesterday and told him that she was informed she was being made redundant on that Friday. She was called into a meeting, was given the at risk letter with the three days consultation, but was also told she was being made redundant and that nothing she said or did would make any difference. So I guess that shows that the consultation is just lip service. I imagine that is what the OH will be also told on Friday.

RubyRue

Hi

Well he had the meeting, lasted all of 15 minutes, they confirmed he is redundant, that it was a foregone conclusion and said his last day is the end of June and gave him a letter with his redunancy package on and he has 5 days to appeal. That was the only information they gave him, nothing about consultation, selection criteria etc etc.

So I'm guessing the next step is to appeal it on the grounds of not following the process?

Pete111

Was speaking to our retained employment lawyer earlier this week and mentioned this as an aside. She was amazed a company could be so daft and
agreed that they have very likely breached process.

If you are so minded you have a very good argument to press here. You may wish to appeal on that basis.

Good luck

LinasPilibaitisisbatman

Well if they made everyone in that position redundant there was no selection critieria.

Those jobs were not required. All holders were made redundant.

RubyRue

LinasPilibaitisisbatman wrote: »

Well if they made everyone in that position redundant there was no selection critieria.

Those jobs were not required. All holders were made redundant.

Thanks just wanted to make sure I understood what they were saying, its the role that's redundant as they decided that the work carried out by that role would be spread around the company.

RubyRue

Oh I forgot the letter he was given in the "consultation" meeting today was actually dated the 24th June so I guess that does show that they had already made up their minds beforehand.

RubyRue

Hi

Just thought I'd give a little update, the OH had his appeal meeting today, if you can call it that. The director started the meeting by saying that this was just a small off the record chat to clear the air. OH stated that it was his understanding, and as stated on the letter they sent, that this should be an appeal meeting so the director relunctantly agreed.

The director that was hearing the meeting had not read OH's appeal letter, did not know the reasons why OH was appealing and didn't know anything about how the redundancies were carried out etc. I would have thought that for impartiality sake then it shouldn't be the same person who was part of the decision making in the first place but if he is hearing the appeal shouldn't he at least have an idea of the background?

Anyway over half of the questions OH asked the director wouldn't answer and just said that he wasn't part of the process. He did state that there was no selection critiera, they just picked OH. OH also asked if alternatives were considered and they replied they were... a year ago... it was not part of redundancy process.

He didn't look at OH's evidence, he just said that he couldn't comment on it because he wasn't involved in the redundancies and that it was OH opinion that they hadn't consulted him.

They did say that in the future they might use him as a consultant but couldn't guarantee it.

The outcome is that he is still redundant, OH has asked for what happened at the meeting in writing. So it would seem that they conducted the appeal in the same manner they conducted the redundancy!

RubyRue

Ah well the saga continues...

We submitted the ET1 form and it was accepted. The company has also made a offer through ACAS for less than a third that what OH has asked for.

Now here's the strange thing, we got their response through today... and they've admitted everything, they have even wrote in their response that they had already pre-decided to make OH redundant before his consultation meeting, that they announced to the rest of the company that he was leaving before he had his consultation.. everything. The only thing they have said is that they cannot confirm nor deny that the person hearing the appeal meeting said it was only an off the record chat as they cannot contact him. The fact he still actually works for them as a contractor and is based in the office surprises me that they could not contact him.

So I'm guessing that they have admitted it may bode well for us if it goes to the hearing, although obviously you can never tell until the actual day.

Pete111

Sounds like you will be firmly on the front foot whatever you decide!

You need to look into whether the offer they have made is substantially lower than what would likely be awarded at tribunal and if so, work to get this nearer the mark (ACAS can assist here). Given they have already admitted they are in the wrong they will not want to go to tribunal so you may wish to push back for more if they would stand to pay out a fair whack more at an ET

Rgs

P