It may be possible to reclaim money from paypal!

cyril82

For anyone reading this thread who has been forced to refund money, had debt collectors sent after them by ebay/paypal for money they refunded without your authority on auctioned goods, been forced to refund despite never getting your goods back etc etc Rest assured you can refer the case for adjudication by the financial ombudsman.

Take comfort in the fact that despite one or two peoples misleading posts on this thread, you will not have to present legal arguments to the ombudsman as they are not a court, nor will you have to prove ebay are an "auctioneer" or that sale by bidding on the ebay website is an auction, the ombudsman will make his own mind up, you will just have to present your case in your own words detailing what happened and how you lost out and why you feel it was unfair.

Rest assured that others have had their cases overturned and their money refunded and you could too.

Referring a case to the ombudsman for adjudication is not complicated, it is 100% free and 100% risk free as if the ombudsman finds in your favour then it is binding to the company however if he does not uphold your case it is not binding to you, you can look at taking other routes if you wish. So this is a no risk option if you have been left out of pocket.

If in doubt contact the ombudsman here and ask if they can adjudicate on your case .... http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

dontdoit_2

cyril82 wrote: »

despite one or two peoples misleading posts

Well, yes, if you did stop making misleading posts it would make everyones life a lot easier.

cyril82 wrote: »

I am not a legal advisor, anything i say here should not be taken as legal advice it is based on extensive personal research and personal experience, where ever possible i will provide links to any legislation or regulations i reference in a post so that you may read and interpret them for yourself. if in any doubt seek professional advice.

Coming from someone who things ebay are auctioneers, I don't think much of your extensive research methods.

As a challenge, write to the FSO today and make a complaint, and write to ebay and ask them if they are an auctioneer. Then come back here and let us know how you got on. Other than that stop posting factually incorrect information that has been shown to you to be so.

cyril82

dontdoit wrote: »

I do realise that. Its just a bit of fun tearing peoples arguments to shreads, especially ones that have taken the person a couple of seconds of 'thought' to construct, but which they then cannot see as flawed..

It's easy too isn't it when you don't burden yourself with the need to support anything you say, unfortunately while easy to do it's also easy to discount.

dontdoit wrote: »

I just wanted this to go to court so I could attend and have a laugh (along with everyone else in the building) when he produces his proof as a copy of the daily mail, and a misinderstood dictionary definition..

Sorry to dissapoint you but the ombudsman service is not a court ... :rolleyes:

Nor did i suggest anyone go to court .. :rolleyes:

Selective omissions from your summary of evidence, OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING documents that state online auctions are excluded from distance selling regs and EBAY'S OWN wording that they offer auction listings :rolleyes:

dontdoit wrote: »

Little things like that amuse me..

(you teed this one up how could i not hit it down the fairway?)

Small things amuse small minds .. :rotfl:

dontdoit wrote: »

As a challenge, write to the FSO tomorrow and make a complaint, and write to ebay and ask them if they are an auctioneer. Then come back here and let us know how you got on. Other than that stop posting factually incorrect information that has been shown to you to be so.

No, Don't have any complaint of my own to make sorry, just posting information that paypal are regulated in the UK and users who have lost money due to unfair treatment can ask the ombudsman to adjudicate.

And those two facts are undisputable.

cyril82

dontdoit wrote: »

Coming from someone who things ebay are auctioneers, I don't think much of your extensive research methods.

As a challenge, write to the FSO today and make a complaint, and write to ebay and ask them if they are an auctioneer. Then come back here and let us know how you got on. Other than that stop posting factually incorrect information that has been shown to you to be so.

(note: i'm assuming you ment thinks not things.. :rotfl:)


since you love challenges, here is one for you.

If you can provide a link to any post on MSE where i categorically state ebay themselves are an auctioneer or that it has any relevance who is the auctioneer for sale by bidding to be an auction just give your email and i'll credit your paypal account with £1,000.

I have never said ebay are auctioneers, just that sale by bidding is an auction. there does not need to be an auctioneer where the auctioneer has been replaced by a computer system.

good luck with your challenge
.

dontdoit_2

Your knowledge of this subject is so superficial, and your arguements are so full of holes that is not even worth going on with this, moreso when you can't even be bothered to deal with factual information. When facts are put to you, you get round that by stating

cyril82 wrote: »

I'm not going to pretend i read all that because i didn't

Pointless pointless pointless.

Now,

As a challenge, write to the FSO today and make a complaint, and write to ebay and ask them if they are an auctioneer. Then come back here and let us know how you got on. Other than that stop posting factually incorrect information that has been shown to you to be so.

cyril is now on my blocked list.He has failed to make his case, and STILL beleives that ebay sales are auctionsdespite the fact that he has been shown proof they are not .When he can actually be bothered to research something, and come back with a case, then theres little point in discussing this further. He has failed to provide a case for his argument, and he case has been blown apart by little things called fact.

Again, for the 3rd time in posting this as you are basing your case aroung this

English dictionary's definition of an auction - I provided a legal definition (or at least one lawyers definition) which tears yours to bits

OFT literature that says online auctions are classed as auctions - NOPE, can't see them specifically mentioning ebay there, all they mention is "auctions, including internet auctions" so even they admit that there is a difference between auctions and internet auctions

and ebay's own website content where ebay themselves state that their sales are auctions - I provided enough ebay links (even T&Cs) that say they are NOT an auction, or care to point out where they say they are an auction (action style is a totally different meaning by the way)

As a challenge, write to the FSO today and make a complaint, and write to ebay and ask them if they are an auctioneer. Then come back here and let us know how you got on. Other than that stop posting factually incorrect information that has been shown to you to be so.
Once you have done that come back and let us know, otherwise, just shut up as you are spouting nonsense.

cyril82

dontdoit wrote: »

you can't even be bothered to deal with factual information. When facts are put to you, .

Sorry to burst your bubble but your opinions are not facts, without evidence to support them they are just speculation.

dontdoit wrote: »

Now,

As a challenge, write to the FSO today and make a complaint, and write to ebay and ask them if they are an auctioneer. Then come back here and let us know how you got on. Other than that stop posting factually incorrect information that has been shown to you to be so..

For the third time, I DO NOT HAVE A COMPLAINT TO MAKE This thread was in reference to an news article that shows there is a course of action that can be taken and several people as a result HAVE ALREADY HAD THEIR MONEY RETURNED BY PAYPAL.

WHAT IS THERE LEFT TO PROVE!

dontdoit wrote: »

cyril is now on my blocked list.

:j:j:jBest news i've heard all day now i won't have to waste more time correcting this nonsense so that people coming here looking for help are not mislead into thinking that they can not do anything about this kind of thing or that it requires complex legal argument to do so IT DOES NOT!! :beer:

.

dontdoit wrote: »

He has failed to make his case.

WRONG !
My "case" is that people can go to the ombudsman in these circumstances and seek adjudication which costs nothing and is risk free and if the ombudsman upholds your case you may get your money back, just like many people did after the Daily Mail investigated this.

That is my case, it is a solid fact and is well made.

(all the legal nonsense about having to prove who is the auctioneer, what is an auction by law etc etc is all made up by dontdoit and is not required to complain to the ombudsman, it's worth noting that ebay themselves have never tried to make the argument that dontdoit is making so i'd advise you just ignore him)
,

dontdoit wrote: »

and STILL beleives that ebay sales are auctionsdespite the fact that he has been shown proof they are not.

Yes i do and no i have not. The only "proof" you have offered is your own opinion and interpretation of a quote from a solicitor describing what is an auction generally, he was not making any direct reference to ebay nor did he say online auctions were not auctions.

dontdoit wrote: »

.When he can actually be bothered to research something, and come back with a case, then theres little point in discussing this further.

Research i have done so far.

• checked that what the Daily Mail say is right and ebay paypal are covered by the ombudsman scheme.
• Checked that the distance selling regulations and their exemptions apply to online auctions.
• Checked that ebay in their own words offer auction listings.
• Made sure there was no legal precedent for paypal defending these cases based on distance selling regulation exemptions not applying to ebay auction sales.
• Checked that there was proof of cases where people have got their money refunded by paypal in these instances making it an open possibility for others to do the same.

.

dontdoit wrote: »

He has failed to provide a case for his argument, and he case has been blown apart by little things called fact. .

More misleading rubbish. I do not have an argument to prove, the following is a fact like it or not;
Anyone in this position can complain to the ombudsman and may be able to recover their money, other have managed to do so, for proof se the link in my original post for cases where people got there money back.

Dontdoit has provided no facts only his opinions.

dontdoit wrote: »

Again, for the 3rd time in posting this as you are basing your case aroung this

English dictionary's definition of an auction - I provided a legal definition (or at least one lawyers definition) which tears yours to bits.

I'm not basing this thread around any dictionary's definition, because it is irrelevant to reporting such cases as the ones discussed my original post to the ombudsman, that was just a response to something you brought up which was total nonsense.

You have not provided a "legal definition" you provided a link to a solicitor giving his own brief and general example of what an auction is, he did not reference online auctions or ebay directly. this solicitors opinion/example has no bearing on referring cases to the ombudsman as the cases would not be submitted on bases of deciding what is the correct legal definition of an auction.

Again this is just something dontdoit brought up which has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.

dontdoit wrote: »

all the OFT mention is "auctions, including internet auctions" so even they admit that there is a difference between auctions and internet auctions.

i'D SAY that saying "auctions including internet auctions actually suggested they were classed the same as they have no different obligations or exemptions to the rules.

dontdoit wrote: »

care to point out where they say they are an auction (action style is a totally different meaning by the way).

Calling their auctions auction-"tyle" does not make them "not auctions" More misleading rubish which has not been backed up.

I really hope you have put me on your blocked list as clearing up all this misleading nonsense is waste of my time.

StaffsSW

Premier_2

cyril82 wrote: »

... the national press are reporting on it, surely action should be taken.

If you wish to believe all the alleged scandals and outrages the Daily Mail report on, then there's little point in trying to convince you otherwise.

StaffsSW

Why does it not suprise me that Cyril is a Daily Mail reader...??

That explains a LOT.

dontdoit_2

stevew8975 wrote: »

Why does it not suprise me that Cyril is a Daily Mail reader...??

That explains a LOT.

He may be able to read, its the understanding that hes got a problem with.

His failure to even ask ebay if they consider themselves, in the legal definition of the word, to be an auctioneer, or to offer auction listings is pure laziness. He has a major problem with understanding that "auction style" and "auction" have 2 very different meanings.

He also can't seem to realise the implications, legally, of an auctioneer and why ebay call themselves a venue, and why sales are considered private sales, not auctions.

Even my dog managed to grasp that one.