University Library Fines

lellie

I owe £2.50 at the moment.. it's not the end of the world though.. That was a couple 7 day loans a couple days overdue because they were recalled and I didn't go into uni on those days (and as recalled couldn't be renewed)

I think the fines are fair enough though.. We have an online system we can sign into to see when books are due back, which is handy - can renew on there too.

I used to work as a librarian and £10-20 fines weren't uncommon - people just never brought stuff back.. we had to charge the fines tho or we'd have no books left!

bestpud

saintstreaky wrote:

Perhaps I can give a different perspective on this? I work as a library assistant in an FE College library - not quite the same, but similar principle.

Firstly, library fines are *meant* to hurt. If they don't, we might as well have none and let people keep books as long as they like.

Secondly, the admin that is involved with overdue items is probably far more significant than you think. The exact process varies from place to place, but we have to sort overdue notices, followed by an invoice if the book is a month overdue, and eventually (and not at all unusually) call in an external agency to try and recover the book(s). All of that costs time and money (and is an extremely frustrating job too!). Clearly not every overdue gets to that stage, but equally there are many items that never get recovered.

I don't know the figures, but I'd be amazed if we made much (if any) money from charges, by the time we've gone through that process and replaced lost and damaged books.

On the other side of the coin, you'll probably find that other charges (e.g. for inter-library loans if you need to get a book/paper etc from another university) are at less than cost - i.e. the library subsidises your request.

In all honesty, unless the date stamped inside the book was wrong (which does occasionally happen, we all make mistakes!) I've got very little sympathy!

I think saintstreaky has answered your question.

The way I see it is you're not bothered about the books being late. Therefore, if you only had to pay £2-3, you wouldn't think twice about doing this again!

Im guessing the charges are displayed within the library, so just pay up and learn from your mistake.

saintstreaky

Just to re-emphasise the direct relevance of my points to the OP's main question: I don't think the charges are excessive, because there are probably more substantial admin costs than you realise - maybe not in your particular case, but certainly on average across all overdue items.

And, I repeat, I would be pretty surprised if the library makes a substantial profit on fines by the time admin and replacement costs are covered.

In xnikkix's case it does sound like a mistake on the issuer's fault (who, btw, is almost certainly a library assistant, not a librarian, there's a big difference) and if it were me I'd certainly waive the fine.

kathfisch

proplusplus wrote:

as i said previously, i dont mind the 30p 50p occasional fine,

but £10 is excessive in my view - and this is them trying to MAKE money off me, rather than deter me.

this is the only reason i am asking. i want to know if the £10 in charges is acceptable, or is it un-enforceable - anyone answer that question?

marcosw7

Your question has been answered, as bestpud says. The fines that you pay cover the cost of the admin involved when books are overdue, therefore they are not punitive or unreasonably high. £10 might seem like a lot but you can't underestimate the hassle and work caused by you not bringing things back when they're due. You cannot argue that the charges are not legal, just pay up and you'll know better next time.

As for fines having a use, I did a year at bristol uwe a few years ago and there the art library did not impose fines, at all. It was a point of principal or something, some long standing arrangement. Anyway, the result was chaos. It was impossible to find the books you wanted, reserving them meant nothing since no one cared when they were supposed to bring them back. Many people kept books for the whole year, running up charges on the (university wide) system which they could then get erased just by asking the librarians. It might have changed now though as they were consulting on it when I was there.

melancholly

in many cases an outstanding fine on your card will prevent you from getting any more books out so you'll probably want to resolve this sooner rather than later. it is a lot of money, but if you were waiting a week for a book you desperately needed for coursework, you might think differently!
the fines are made clear before you take the book, so i don't rate your chances of getting away without paying anything - smile sweetly at a librarian, or depending on your morals tell them about a family emergency that you had to go to if you really can't pay the £10. i think trying to argue your way out of it is a lost cause.

jr666

If libraries can bearly afford to keep going perhaps they need to look at numbers of staff they employ. At my uni library (bath) there are always seem to be 5 or 6 people at the issue desk just standing around chatting then when you want to take a book out they fight between themselves to serve you as quick as possible, i guess its good as you never have to wait but they really should look at whether they need all the 'assistants'. The wardens all walk round in pairs too, is that nessesary?

Im sure the library could save 30-40k a year by loosing a couple of staff.

I thought one of the most intersting posts here was the one about justification of fines if they restocked the shelves IN ORDER and with books in good condition. I must say some of the shelves in my library look awfully shabby with the quality of books and arrangement.

j-baby-scotland

proplusplus wrote:

as i said previously, i dont mind the 30p 50p occasional fine,

but £10 is excessive in my view - and this is them trying to MAKE money off me, rather than deter me.

this is the only reason i am asking. i want to know if the £10 in charges is acceptable, or is it un-enforceable - anyone answer that question?

marcosw7

You should ask what the maximum charge is... I once, not to recommend it, took a book out on hourly loan for the weekend... something 'bout books... brings out the possessive in me...
Got hit with the maximum fine... paid, in the region of £15.00 if I mind right, thankfully they had a maximum charge!(despite single parent blah, blah, blah.. meaning hourly no use whatsoever, between running to subway then bus then school)

A tenner ain't soooo bad surely?

pavlovs_dog

i wouldnt object so much if the library troubled to set up an automatic courtesy "your books are due back" email notice like they do at the end of long holidays. given the nature of the systems in place, it wouldnt be at all difficult, and would make it much harder for people to then wiggle out of paying fines incurred.

proplusplus

thanks for the replies.

it's useful to hear your responses.

i do still feel that most of your arguments are fundamentally flawed in the sense that you say the fines are used to replace and or repair books.

A monetary punitive levy in order to cover adminstrative costs must reflect the adminstrative costs of your mistake. By returning the book late, in no way have i 'damaged or required a book to be replaced' as a result - the argument is wrong.

If your argument is correct, then surely everyone who borrows a book must face the charge of the costs as everyone uses them. If i borrowed the book and the charge was £1 for a letter to be sent to me asking to return the book, then the time spent on writing the letter, the cost of the letter+ postage is the adminstrative costs.

The adminstrative cost is not the fact that they need to buy a new bookshelf, or a new set of books - this is not my problem - they get money for that elsewhere.

The other flaw to your argument is to say that the cost for me is only cheap, so i should pay it, and that the costs are clearly displayed. This is irrelevant as if a fine must reflect administrative costs, then any charge in excess of this is un-enforceable.

A law applies to banks as much as it does to a library. Law applies to people who make £25 off you a time, exactly the same way as someone who makes 30p off you each time.

An administrative cost is also not the effect on other students who have to wait for the return of my book.

I do thank you for your replies, but still i want an answer to this question.

Is the law that is appliacable to monetary punitive charges under a contract the same in this situation or not? (yes or no?)

proplusplus

proplusplus

j-baby-scotland wrote:

A tenner ain't soooo bad surely?

well, i'd rather not pay a tenner than pay a tenner if you know what i mean!

The whole idea of this site is moneysaving so i thought i'd post and see what responses i get...

dont mean to sound aggressive in my posts, i read it - and it seems a little, but i'm just trying to get my point accross

proplusplus