Exactly WHO can ask to see insurance/mot documents?

doodle-bug_2

I work for a higher education establishment and some of the students go into local schools using their own cars as part of the course.

It seems that someone has thought it was a good idea (possibly to avoid a corporate manslaughter charge!) to ask to see insurance/mot of those using their own cars.

Are we entitled to ask to see these? Can the students refuse?
Seems a bit of an imposition to me - I thought that it was the driver who was personally responsible to ensure the legality. How could any failure of the student to ensure this reflect badly on the college?

I'd be interested to hear views on this.

lisyloo

Seems a bit of an imposition to me

It's all part of our increasingly litigous culture.
An employer or establishment could potentially be sued for negligence if they let someone drive on business in an unroadworthy vehicle.

how could any failure of the student to ensure this reflect badly on the college?

They could be sued for negligence.
Imagine you were a parent and a teacher allowed your child to be transported in a bus without the legally required seatbelts.
Whilst the driver/bus company would be primary responsible, surely you would also expect the teacher/school to act with a duty of care.
So the legal answer is that yes they can be sued and they do have a "duty of care".

If students refuse then ultimately they could be chucked off the course.

Of course an MOT does not prove a car is roadworthy but it may be sufficient to stop them getting sued.
It would not be practical for them to get a mechanic out to check every car every day, but this quite possibly absolves them of their requirement of a "duty of care".

BTW - I'm not sure whether standard social, domestic and pleasure insurance would cover their travel.
I travel to customers sometimes and have business insurance.
I'm not sure whether this is counted as "work". It's certainly not social or pleasure.
I don't know on that one, but they should really check.

mattymoo

It is common to carry out these checks in private industry and would extend to include a driving license check as well to make sure they are driving legally. Very common in the NHS as well were district nurses / midwives etc use their own vehicles a lot.

Various situations can arise, e.g. their car hits school property or god forbid, a person on school grounds. If it then becomes apparent that they had no insurance, the college could be criticised for not having carried out the checks.

It would also soil the college reputation in the eyes of the school and you may have future placement issues.

doodle-bug_2

Thanks for your comments.

Would it suffice (in law) to ask students to sign a form indicating that the college stresses how important it is for the student to ensure that they follow all aspects of the law regarding mot/insurance/legality etc.

Would this put the onus back onto the student?

mattymoo

No - not really.
Driving law is a pretty complex area and you may have students driving on foreign / provisional / suspended licenses. Insurance is also complex, as Lissyloo points out, business use may be required if they are doing anything other than simple commuting, and that also needs to be covered over and above social domestic and pleasure.

The college might want to consider speaking to their broker about contingent motor liability cover. Will give some basic third party liability cover if the student's own cover fails in some way. Note, this is not a blanket type cover, it is a last resort type cover designed to protect the college, not the student.

lisyloo

Would it suffice (in law) to ask students to sign a form indicating that the college stresses how important it is for the student to ensure that they follow all aspects of the law regarding mot/insurance/legality etc.

Would this put the onus back onto the student?

Disclaimers do not generally absolve people from carrying out their own duty of care.
The establishment in question should be paying for proper legal advice on this.

doodle-bug_2

Thanks for the comments. Not as simple as I first thought, unfortunately!

I am wondering where all of this litigious stuff is going to stop - but I really think it is going to get worse.

lisyloo

Well we already have "MAY CONTAIN NUTS" on packets on peanuts and "HOT" on coffee, so I don't think you will find it will stop.

Unfortunately everyone has to protect themselves, but the HE establishment needs to pay their own way on leagl advice.
Forums are great, but trying to get it for free might be a false economy.

mattymoo

As Lisyloo says, you need professional advice. Couple of routes you could try are the college or education authorities fleet management dept or the H+S officer.

Quentin

The college can ask, but (unless it is part of any contract the student enters into when enrolling for a course), the student can refuse the request.

Until there is a contractual agreement for the student to produce documents when requested, all the college can do is ask nicely.

lisyloo

I'm sure the college could do something (in extreme case suspend or expel the student).

If I wanted to drive my car with customers in with bald tyes, I'm certain that my employer could refuse to let me use my car on business and I'm certain the establishment would be able to not allow students to continue on their course if they felt the students were putting someone else's safety at risk.
They probably did sign up to something general when they joined the course which would cover it and allow the college to suspend/expel them.

Extreme, but I'm certain they don't have to put up with any behviour.