Time to boycott WH Smith over travel books?

KonkyWonky

SimonVeness wrote: »

The problem is only that most people won't realise they are being short-changed for choice on something like this; they will simply see the 3 main Penguin brands and think that's all there is. Happily, forums like this allow us to put the word out and make sure people can make an informed choice. :T

And many thanks, nw_man - that's always good to hear

I think the majority of the population have a little more intelligence than that.

Obviously you have a vested interest as you are likely to loss out on sales. At the end of the day I am quite sure that other travel guides were not sold in WHS prior to this deal being set up.

I am sure your guide is excellent, I am also sure some of the other guides on the market are excellent (possibly even the Penguin ones). It obviously made business sense for WHS to broker a deal like this and I don't think they can be ridiculed for that especially in this current economic climate.

Buy a travel guide from wherever you wish, there are no restrictions.......

Tojo_Ralph

IMHO, the OP's comments come across as sour grapes rather than genuine concern for the consumer. As the OP says, they have a vested interest in the matter and this certainly comes across in their perhaps skewed views and rather sensationalist claims.... Something that IMHO does the OPs cause no favours whatsoever.

SimonVeness wrote: »

This means some of the best travel guides will NOT be available to the general public in future, so many people will be short-changed on getting the right info for their holidays.

Not true.... it will simply mean that certain travel guides will not be available at WH Smith Travel stores.

SimonVeness wrote: »

WH Smith already have a monopoly in all these prime locations (meaning no-one else can sell books there).

And just like all the other retailers at airports, train stations, sporting venues, etc, they will be paying handsomely for the privilege, and having paid handsomely, they are cashing in on their investment with exclusivety deals.

SimonVeness wrote: »

So many holiday-goers expecting to get a choice of the best available (and thus, help ensure they get the best possible holiday), will be unknowing victims of this anti-consumer measure.

Any holidaymaker who expects to get a wide and varied choice from an airport retailer is a complete idiot.

SimonVeness wrote: »

I hate to think of many people buying books for their holidays which are, quite frankly, inferior to what is widely available.

Opinion stated as fact.

SimonVeness wrote: »

Under this monopoly, people will not be able to buy Lonely Planet, Frommers, Bradt, Unofficial Guide, Fodor's and other brands, all of which have some great books on different destinations.

But they will of course be able to buy any of the above from a myriad of other sources in the weeks and months leading up to their holiday.

SimonVeness wrote: »

Sadly, the reality is that many people count on the airport bookstores to provide their holiday reading and info.

This is a ridiculous claim ..... Airport bookstores are for nothing more than impulse buys and perhaps a best seller for the flight.

SimonVeness wrote: »

However, the other (bigger) issue at stake, is that WHS are likely to use this as a test run to see if they can get away with doing this on a wider scale in their stores and their stock. And, when they already have a (jealously-guarded) monopoly at places like the airports, I think it's highly likely to be a big negative for those looking for good holiday info in future.

Jealously observed by others maybe, but as those observers are well aware, that monopoly does not come cheap.

SimonVeness wrote: »

However, the other (bigger) issue at stake, is that WHS are likely to use this as a test run to see if they can get away with doing this on a wider scale in their stores and their stock.

You know as well as I do that if a book is a seller, WH Smiths will be stocking it in their stores UK wide just as any book seller worth their salt will be, thus claiming that this is perhaps the thin edge of the wedge is a tad silly IMHO.
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Lakelady_2

I wouldn`t worry too much if I were you Simon. Manchester Airport also has a non WH Smith book shop, I can`t remember which terminal though. I think with Orlando holidays people do alot of prior research before they hit the airports.
Your books are great - keep up the good work!

SimonVeness

You know as well as I do that if a book is a seller, WH Smiths will be stocking it in their stores UK wide just as any book seller worth their salt will be, thus claiming that this is perhaps the thin edge of the wedge is a tad silly IMHO.

Just to put the lie to this statement and confirm how blinkered WH Smith can be, the Brit Guide to Orlando has been the best-selling travel-guide of any kind for almost 10 years. They refused to stock it all at first as there were "too many guidebooks on Florida" and they have stopped taking the 2009 edition, even though it out-sells anything else by more than 2-1 (please check Booktrack if you have any doubts). The fact is, as a smaller-scale publisher we don't fit their book-selling 'models,' therefore they prefer to stock only those titles which fit their very simplistic system rather than looking for what the public really wants. This move to stock only Penguin titles is another step in that direction and simply aims to remove consumer choice in the long-term as their aim is to force other book-sellers out of the market by under-cutting their prices (through this monopoly). Hopefully, the consumer WILL see through this policy, but there are still plenty of people who see WH Smith as 'the' UK seller simply by tradition. As I say, there are far more than just Brit Guide titles at stake here (and we are fortunate to have a very loyal reader base), but a lot of other worthwhile travel-writers who could well be put out of work as a result of 'initiatives' like this. The bottom line is that WHS/Penguin are trying to force a monopoly on to the market, and the market eneds to be aware of it and react accordingly.

Airports do still sell a lot of travel guides, BTW, otherwise WH Smith woudn't bother to stock them there. I'm not so sure I would label anyone who uses an airport bookstore 'stupid,' though.

I wouldn`t worry too much if I were you Simon. Manchester Airport also has a non WH Smith book shop, I can`t remember which terminal though. I think with Orlando holidays people do alot of prior research before they hit the airports.

Thanks Lakelady! That's always good to hear. Yes, I also think the majority of people do their research in advance, and hence buy travel guides in advance (especially for long-haul destinations). We've been around long enough to get a reasonably clear picture of the Orlando market. But there are plenty of other guidebooks which could be squeezed out by these kinds of tactics.

FloFlo

I borrowed my first guide book from the library many years ago - a brits guide to cruising and very good it was too. Since then I buy my guide books and by the time I go on the holiday they are using falling apart from rereading. For Florida I always buy the brits guide and unofficial guide such a shame I won't be able to order to collect on publication date or impulse buy from smiths but it just means that I will buy my guide books from Amazon most probably.

I'd just like to say to Simon Veness that your guide books - a brits guide to orlando/las vegas/ cruising/ disneyland paris have all been very useful as well as good reads.

I know that many on thedibb think your books are great also.

I hope that this decision by Whsmith doesn't affect your business too badly.

SimonVeness

Thank you, FloFlo, that is very nice to hear

Tojo_Ralph

SimonVeness wrote: »

Just to put the lie to this statement and confirm how blinkered WH Smith can be, the Brit Guide to Orlando has been the best-selling travel-guide of any kind for almost 10 years. They refused to stock it all at first as there were "too many guidebooks on Florida" and they have stopped taking the 2009 edition, even though it out-sells anything else by more than 2-1

I doubt very much that WHS are blinkered, but I do accept that they would have more than one eye on profit in a saturated market.

SimonVeness wrote: »

The fact is, as a smaller-scale publisher we don't fit their book-selling 'models,' therefore they prefer to stock only those titles which fit their very simplistic system rather than looking for what the public really wants.

Any retailer that fails to deliver what the buying public wants will fail, regardless of the market ..... thus I assume WHS are doing something right?

SimonVeness wrote: »

This move to stock only Penguin titles is another step in that direction and simply aims to remove consumer choice in the long-term as their aim is to force other book-sellers out of the market by under-cutting their prices (through this monopoly).

Lest we forget that the monopoly you repeatedly refer to relates to very limited shelf space at airports and train stations ..... Thus your claim doesn't hold a great deal of water.

With regards to Penguin, it is a safe bet that WHS stocking Penguin books in their travel stores has NOTHING whatsoever to do with a wish to remove customer choice and everything to do with profit as they are no doubt buying in the penguin books at something like 25% of retail.

SimonVeness wrote: »

Hopefully, the consumer WILL see through this policy, but there are still plenty of people who see WH Smith as 'the' UK seller simply by tradition.

That should not be difficult given that there is no policy to see through.

SimonVeness wrote: »

As I say, there are far more than just Brit Guide titles at stake here (and we are fortunate to have a very loyal reader base), but a lot of other worthwhile travel-writers who could well be put out of work as a result of 'initiatives' like this.

Nowt more than scaremongery born of self interest.

SimonVeness wrote: »

The bottom line is that WHS/Penguin are trying to force a monopoly on to the market, and the market needs to be aware of it and react accordingly.

You imply that WHS are unique in there approach with regards to cutting exclusivety deals at primary retail outlets ..... However this is anything but the case.

SimonVeness wrote: »

Airports do still sell a lot of travel guides, BTW, otherwise WH Smith woudn't bother to stock them there.

Of course they do... After all, if one couldn't sell travel books from an airport book store, one might as well chuck it in.

SimonVeness wrote: »

I'm not so sure I would label anyone who uses an airport bookstore 'stupid,' though.

I wouldn't label anyone who uses an airport bookstore stupid either, however if you feel I did, please quote me?
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SimonVeness

If you go back and edit your posts, Tojo, and take out the offensive words once they have been noticed, that doesn't mean you didn't write them in the first place. :rolleyes: The fact is you are arguing purely for the sake of it and confusing opinion (yours) for fact with someone who works in the industry and has a decent understanding of what's going on here.

Here's a comment from someone else on The Bookseller who clearly has a good grasp of the story:

The interesting point which seems to be rather overlooked is that effectively WHS isn't interesting in selling more books. It's interested in asking for more money from publishers. This has been seen to a truly terrifying extent in its dealings with magazine publishers ("We'll stock you if you commit to buying expensive in-store promotions, and not unless, even if you are selling well and a respected title.") And of course WHS are far from alone in this – other large chains also demand either sizable sums in promotions, or huge discounts, which smaller publishers find difficult or impossible to give. The issue here is not the lack of choice for consumers in airports - it's the future lack of choice anywhere, as publishers (travel, fiction, whatever) are driven out of business by the demands of the behemoth retailers, in the high street, the airport or the internet. Of course, smaller booksellers can't demand the discounts, so they're going under too, and the last refuges of the smaller publishers go with them. Before I'm scorned for being sentimental or socialist, note that I'm not arguing that this is right or wrong - merely observing that consumer choice of guidebooks in airports is the thin edge of the wedge.

Plushchris

hollydays wrote: »

I don't know why anyone would shop there ,full stop.Expensive and don't sell anything you can't get elswhere with better service.

Couldnt agree more, I'm amazed they are still going tbh

Tojo_Ralph

SimonVeness wrote: »

If you go back and edit your posts, Tojo, and take out the offensive words once they have been noticed, that doesn't mean you didn't write them in the first place. :rolleyes:

I last edited the post you refer to at 7-43pm and you You responded to that post at 8-07pm
Thus my post was last edited 24 minutes prior to you response.
Ruling out time travel, please explain how I went back and edited my post after your claims?

SimonVeness wrote: »

The fact is you are arguing purely for the sake of it and confusing opinion (yours) for fact with someone who works in the industry and has a decent understanding of what's going on here.

Arguing? .... I have simply questioned the claims you are making and the sensationalist nature of your posts in an effort to sort out the Wheat from the chaff.

As for the implication that your opinion carries more weight due to your working in the industry, the issue itself relates to one of basic retail marketing, so no insight is actually needed.

That said though, tell me this..... How far off am I with my stab that WHS will be buying in Penguin books at 25% of retail and at what percent of retail would the we you speak on behalf of be looking to sell your travel books at in a similar deal?
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