South West Trains Penalty

kevin123

Hi,

Back in January I boarded a train to Waterloo without purchasing a ticket before I travelled. I live next to a small station with trains that run every 30 minutes on weekdays and every hour on a sunday. I was traveling on a sunday in the evening and the ticket office was closed. As far as I was aware the ticket machine did not have the facilities to take credit/debit cards (which I have been told it does) so I boarded the train hoping to buy a travel card at waterloo (which I needed to do anyway to continue my journey). Anyway a ticket inspector was at the barrier and I approached him to let him know that I did not have a ticket. He took my details and I offered to pay the standard ont he spot £20 fine with a credit/debit card which I could not do. He let me go and I purchased an all day travel card which covered the zones I had just traveled.

I received a letter a month ago from South West Trains saying that I will be taken to court and I am welcome to put my side of the story across in writing which I did. I received a response in writing this week asking me to call them to discuss the matter further which I did. They have offered me a £250 out of court settlement if I wish to pay it! I think this is very harsh as it's over 10 times the standard fine that most people recieve. I asked them to put that in writing so I can seek some advice but they refused to as they said they will not then be able to prosecute me if they. If I do not pay the fine I will be taken to court and I may receive a larger fine and a criminal record!

I am seeking advice. What shall I do? Shall I pay the £250 even though it's the first time I have ever been caught traveling without a ticket and also the standard penalty is just £20? I asked did not have the option to pay and dispute the standard £20 and why I am going to be summoned to court if I do not pay what they want? She said it has gone through so many people now etc and she basicly said it's to cover some of thier admin costs!

Do I have a strong enough case to go to court over this?

Many thanks in advance.

LinasPilibaitisisbatman

Ignorance is no defence

Your story doesnt sound remotely believablee or compelling either. You genuinely thought ticket machines didnt have card facilities.

kevin123

Oh god you sound like the guys on the phone.

Yes it's a very small station. In fact the station has not had a ticket machine for a week! it was removed a week ago. The ticket office is also not open on weekends so if you travelled last weekend like I did you had to get the bus 15 minutes to a larger station to purchase a ticket.

My story is honest. If I was not honest with them why would I bother giving my correct details to them?

substandard

I've been in a similar situation before and it still drives me mad thinking about how stubborn they are. I jumped on a train which I'd thought was about to pull away, thinking that because there were barriers at my destination it would be perfectly obvious I was planning to buy my ticket when I arrived (or else how would I get through the gates?). Like you, I approached an inspector and asked to buy a ticket and he fined me. Fortunately, I was able to pay the fine with a card so that was the end of it (though I wrote several letters of complaint afterwards that were routinely ignored).

Anyway - back to your problem - the question is: if you were unable to pay the fine on the spot, why didn't you make sure to pay it later on? Presumably there was a number you could ring on the fine to pay it? It sounds like you waited for them to chase you up - which is never the way to a hassle-free life.

I guess you could ask them for a breakdown of their administrative costs as £250 is clearly not reflective of this amount, which makes it a penalty for late payment. Which others here might have advice about if you want to avoid paying it.

kevin123

I did not receive a penalty ticket. Apparantly they have 2 routes.

They give you an on the sport penalty fine which you can contest within 21 days or pay.

or

Take your details and forward it to thier prosecution department.

They took the 2nd root. I asked why I did not get the on the spot fine. They said reasons usually are you gave false details (which I did not. I showed him my driving licence), you have been caught before (which I have not) or something similar.

My point to them is that I am happy to pay the standard fine and I feel I ahve been treated unfairly as most others just get that option and I don't know why they want to prosecute me. She basicly said now to make thier money back for admin costs they want to take me to court! I have corrospondid immediatly and been completely honest with them and now they want to charge me £250!

Bowling_4_Gold

Why did you not look at the machine before you boarded the train? I mean, if I was to be at a station with no office open, I would definately go to the machine before I even go on the platform, even if the station is my most local one. To be honest, I can't see a big problem with the £250 fine. You willingly boarded the train without any permission to travel, and expected to be cut slack when you got to your destination?!?! Anyway, surely you could of popped back to your house, got enough change to get to the next station, and bought a full ticket there?? I recommend you do what you want. It was your own fault anyway.

kevin123

Bowling_4_Gold wrote: »

Why did you not look at the machine before you boarded the train? I mean, if I was to be at a station with no office open, I would definately go to the machine before I even go on the platform, even if the station is my most local one. To be honest, I can't see a big problem with the £250 fine. You willingly boarded the train without any permission to travel, and expected to be cut slack when you got to your destination?!?! Anyway, surely you could of popped back to your house, got enough change to get to the next station, and bought a full ticket there?? I recommend you do what you want. It was your own fault anyway.

Hi,

I'm here seeking advice not a telling off thanks.

Bowling_4_Gold

kevin123 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm here seeking advice not a telling off thanks.

Ok. Fair enough. My answer to your question is no. You boarded a train and knew the consequences if you didn't have a valid ticket. Its a risk you took and it turned out bad on this occasion.

substandard

kevin123 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm here seeking advice not a telling off thanks.

Well said. Regardless of whose fault it was, £250 is an outrageous fine if the OP's account is accurate.

Something in this story doesn't add up, though. I can't believe they can arbitrarily decide whether to issue a £20 fine or £250 and let you leave without any documentation at all. I recommend reading the conditions of carriage thoroughly so you can get straight what happened.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

I don't know if Southwestern Trains have any conditions that are exclusive to them, but find out and read them, too.

blindmouse

So did you go to the next station on the bus where there was a machine or did you board the train in your original place where there was no machine as you stated in your 2nd post ??

kevin123

ok thanks.

Does anyone think if I did persue it and it went to court that I would end up paying more the standard fine of £20 as I was not offered it? Would I end up paying my own solicitor fees and covering thier legal costs too as technically I am in the wrong?