Ebay - Paypal Problem, Advice Needed

astan78

Greetings,

I have been a member of ebay for 5 years as both buyer and seller and have had my fair share of minor problems that have been easily resolved by mutual understanding and communication.

However last month I received my first ever paypal complaint and to be honest it has left me bewildered and very very worried.

The series of events as follows

20th May buyer from India buys an item from me for £91


21st May buyer pays for item

I was away from home at this time and the item is posted on the 27th along with an apology to buyer and eta for delivery of 5-21 days. ( he was contacted and advised of delay on the 26th but was to late in the day to post ).

2nd June I receive a paypal complaint item has not arrived, however as I do not go online everyday I am not aware of this until the 3rd of June when complaint has been escalated and the £91 frozen from my paypal account.

I contact the buyer and explained the item may take upto 21 days to arrive and advise a tracking number as the item was sent via signed for airmail.

I upload a photo of royal mail receipt with tracking number and a screen print of the tracking page from royal mail website proving item is currently in India. I also add a note on the paypal complaint that sufficient time has not been allowed for item to be delivered.

Royal mail site advises 5 working days for signed for airmail delivery but small print advises can take upto 3 weeks and is not guaranteed 5 days and there are also possible customs delays to take into account. ( As a note I have delivered to over 50 counties during my time on ebay and within the EU takes about 5 working days and outside the EU with the possible exception of the USA takes about 2 weeks )

7th June Paypal sends me an ominous email asking for more information and advising I have until the 10th to provide it ....

I reply to email asking what further information they require and also post the same request on the paypal complaint.

8th June no reply and I have 2 days to give them further information ......

As it stands the RM tracking info currently states
"Your item, posted on 27/05/09 with reference RI*********GB has been passed to the overseas postal service for delivery in INDIA."

The simple fact of the matter is sufficient time has not been given to allow for delivery to be made, and that with a deadline of 2 days to provide further information that time is not being to be given, and that the buyer is going to end up with his item and a refund and me loose the item and be £9 out of pocket for postage.

Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed, the only thing that comes to mind is to try and get the morning off work and get down to the citizens advice bureau.

Many thanks for any help / advice in advance
A

MsCrow

Just checking, but you did send out to a confirmed address?...

Don't worry yet, if it were me, I'd phone Paypal and get an agent to look at the details and see if they can extend the time to the full three weeks allowed by RM. This gives your item sufficient time to arrive.

If it hasn't by then, you have to accept that paypal will refund the buyer as it's your responsibility to get an item to the buyer or follow up non-delivery. If after the correct time has elapsed and Paypal refund the buyer, you need to then claim for the lost item from Royal Mail as you should still have the receipt, tracking code etc. Whilst you're at it, print the full auction details to back up your claim if the need arises.

frivolous_fay

The initial delay in posting has now caused you a major headache... the best you can do is phone PP and find out if they are willing to give you any more time as it's obviously in transit.

Premier_2

astan78 wrote: »

...2nd June I receive a paypal complaint item has not arrived, however as I do not go online everyday I am not aware of this until the 3rd of June when complaint has been escalated ...

I have no idea how this happened unless you were suspended from ebay.

Normally the complainant must allow a certain time (10 days I think) before being allowed to escalate a claim. This doesn't apply if you are no longer a registered user or you respond within that time. I think the matter can be escalated as soon as a response is received.

However, paypal do look to see that both parties have acted reasonably in making a claim and should one side elect to escalate the matter when the other is trying to resolve it won't be taken as being reasonable.

astan78

The initial delay has indeed caused a headache, I was however not off on a jolly, I was given 13 hours notice of the trip which was work orientated and had no internet access while away.

The address was confirmed and identical on ebay / paypal and the item had a return address and customs sticker.

I will call paypal in the morning and see what they say but from what I have read of peoples past experience with them I hold little hope.

Thank you for your time / advice.

MsCrow

astan78 wrote: »

I will call paypal in the morning and see what they say but from what I have read of peoples past experience with them I hold little hope.

Have the patience of a saint and remain polite and easy going, it can be stressful talking to paypal but if you can keep your cool, they can be helpful. Trust that as long as you've kept all the details and in the event they don't extend the time allowed, you can still claim from RM. This happened to us with a suit, sent to the US. It never arrived and paypal refunded the money to the buyer but I managed to get the £600 back of RM has we'd sent it fully insured and had kept all the paperwork.

basilseal

Premier wrote: »

I have no idea how this happened unless you were suspended from ebay.

Normally the complainant must allow a certain time (10 days I think) before being allowed to escalate a claim. This doesn't apply if you are no longer a registered user or you respond within that time. I think the matter can be escalated as soon as a response is received.

However, paypal do look to see that both parties have acted reasonably in making a claim and should one side elect to escalate the matter when the other is trying to resolve it won't be taken as being reasonable.

This is incorrect, once you have filed a claim with pay pal you have a certain amount of time to escalate it, but you can, if you wish, escalate it straight away, pay pal will not take a view as to whether this is unreasonable or not.

astan78

Premier wrote: »

I have no idea how this happened unless you were suspended from ebay.

Normally the complainant must allow a certain time (10 days I think) before being allowed to escalate a claim. This doesn't apply if you are no longer a registered user or you respond within that time. I think the matter can be escalated as soon as a response is received.

However, paypal do look to see that both parties have acted reasonably in making a claim and should one side elect to escalate the matter when the other is trying to resolve it won't be taken as being reasonable.

i12.photobucket . com/albums/a202/anrkyuk/ pphistory.jpg

sorry would not allow me to post image direct and you will need to remove the spaces to make the above link to a screen shot of the complaint history work.

As per the image complaint files 2nd, escalated 3rd.

My ebay is in good standing with over 350 100% positive feedback and no negative feedback and my paypal account ( untill this complaint ) was also in good standing with no prior complaints.

Premier_2

basilseal wrote: »

This is incorrect, once you have filed a claim with pay pal you have a certain amount of time to escalate it, but you can, if you wish, escalate it straight away, pay pal will not take a view as to whether this is unreasonable or not.

Another help page ebay need to update then.

You can report the seller to the Trust and Safety team if the seller doesn’t respond within 10 days, or any time after the seller responds if needed (for example, if they respond inappropriately).

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/item-not-received.html


Edit: The paypal resolution service is a little different, requiring 7 days to have elapsed from date of payment.

13.8.b ...
You must wait at least 7 days from the date of payment to escalate a Dispute for an Item Not Received (INR), ...

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside#pbp-policy

Yes, the delay in sending the item seems to have caught the OP out in this instance.

soolin

As others have already said the initial delay in posting has caused you problems before you even start on the other problems i fear you will now face.

Assuming this went international signed for there is no guarantee of delivery confirmation anyway, and if paypal can't see it was delivered then you lose despite the time frame. The RM site says the following:

All items are tracked until they leave the UK – and in some cases on arrival in the destination country. Check the progress of your item online until it reaches the destination country’s postal service as a registered item.

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content3?mediaId=22700573&catId=400035

If you took out extra insurance then you can always fall back to a RM claim for loss en route if item fails to arrive. Standard signed for though only covers up to £39 of loss.

All you can do is keep your fingers crossed that the item tracks before the time limit on the dispute. You have 7 days minimum, possibly more from the date it was escalated until paypal make their decision.

soolin

Premier wrote: »

Another help page ebay need to update then.

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/item-not-received.html

I think we are assuming the claim is a paypal chargeback not an ebay resolution system complaint.

For paypal disputes go here:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/securitycenter/sell/ResolveIssue-outside

the only time limit is that disputes must be escalated within 20 days of being raised. There is no lower time limit. I had a dispute opened on me about 10 weeks ago it was escalated within 10 minutes and even before I got the original email from paypal!