Fraudulent Invoices??

Fire_Fox

Hi

Not sure if this is the right forum ... I live in a leasehold flat and have a long running dispute with our management company. Part of the issue is the cleaning company who are contracted to visit twice weekly for vacuuming and monthly for window cleaning. I have supplied written statements to the effect that this isn't done, with examples, going back to December 2006.

To date leaseholders continue to be invoiced, but again this week I have evidence the cleaners aren't visiting. They have previously managed to miss a small pile of earth in the corridor for over a month, and tramps living in the top floor stairwell for three weeks!! Our stairwell window, which is specified on the cleaning spec, has not been cleaned in over two years. This week the cleaners have missed a massive flood in the foyer, a chunk of pasty (!) on a windowsill and leaves from a pot plant in the corridor for ten days.

It has suddenly occurred to me that this isn't just breaching the Landlord-Tenant Act, but surely continuing to raise invoices for cleaning not carried out is fraudulent?? If it is, is this fraud in respect of the cleaners invoicing the managing agents, or the managing agents invoicing us or both? What are the risks with me accusing one or both companies of fraud in writing?

Thanks.

Judith_W

This is just my tuppence. I reckon that the fraud is against the management company not you directly. You are paying for a service you are not receiving, but so are they. It is their responsiblity to reclaim the money from the cleaning company and then reimburse you guys I would have thought. As you don't have any sort of direct contract with the cleaning company there is nothing you can do against them.

Thats just my thoughts

Hailz86

Maybe you should go to the CAB with this and get other people to complain too, its not fair that you are paying for this lack of service x

Fire_Fox

Judith_W wrote: »

This is just my tuppence. I reckon that the fraud is against the management company not you directly. You are paying for a service you are not receiving, but so are they. It is their responsiblity to reclaim the money from the cleaning company and then reimburse you guys I would have thought. As you don't have any sort of direct contract with the cleaning company there is nothing you can do against them.

Thats just my thoughts

I told the managing agents two and a half years ago that we were not getting the service paid for, and again since, and they continue to pay the invoices and pass the costs onto leaseholders. They have outright refused to question the caretaker on suspect invoices, then expect me to pay service charges on the basis they have paid for non-existent services!

There is one other leaseholder who is refusing to pay his service charges, but the remaining flats are either empty or BTL. I have already gone as far as I can without going to a LVT, which seems an awful lot of hassle. Just waiting on the building being sold and a new managing agent, but can't imagine the old ones will want to write off thousands of pounds.

Since writing my OP I am also looking into 'Breach of Trust' - it apparently carries an automatic prison sentence!! Would be amusing to suggest that they might be guilty of this.

dacouch

Are you using the management company that was on Watchdog a few months ago by any chance?

Fire_Fox

I am not using anyone! I would sack our managing agents in a heartbeat. As we are the only residential property they manage I suspect they have not featured on Watchdog ... yet.

Just composing yet another letter covering my back for the future. I realise my letters will not result in any action, but they do form a record of the ongoing issues. When they bother replying the managing agents rarely actually dispute any of the specific complaints - they simply ignore them! :rolleyes:

dmg24

Which company is it Fire Fox?

CAB won't be much use on this. A call to the Leasehold Advisory Service should be very helpful.

jobsearcher48

I have a friend who had a similar issue.Have you considered also getting all the residents together on an online forum,so they can openly contribute,it brings greater pressure to bare.Call it the residents commitee.

Fire_Fox

Thanks to both of you.

I have done my homework - I now have a pretty good understanding of the Landlord-Tenant Act 1985 (as amended) and have been in contact with LEASE. In fact we have formally offered their mediation service .... repeatedly ... and been completely ignored. I have also read my lease and quoted the relevant parts in letters. The last time they replied to one of my letters it took ELEVEN months!!

Most of the flats are either empty or BTL. The residents are generally nice, but move on very quickly and are certainly not interested in the maintenance. There are two owner-occupiers who don't pay, myself and my upstairs neighbour. According to the managing agents I am a "bad apple ... leading him astray" and there is no problem at all with the cleaning, only that the place needs decorating. I can assure you I am capable of telling the difference between bits of pasty/ bags of refuse/ old mops/ just plain filth and wear and tear.

I am 100% clear that our managing agents have broken several parts of the Landlord-Tenant Act, they don't send the bills with an address for the freeholder, they don't enclose a leaflet with our rights, they don't send annual breakdowns of charges, they don't reply to requests for documentation within one month, the charges are not "reasonable" or "reasonably incurred", the work is not to a "reasonable standard", they have not consulted on major works, the caretaker's contract is not in writing, etc. I am now looking to find out what other laws are being broken: interestingly breach of trust does come up as an issue at LVTs so there is a precedent.

The agents have already made several threats of legal action/ bailiffs/ debt collectors which have come to nothing. The arrears are clearly in dispute so they don't have any right to simply try to collect. I believe eventually they will get solicitors involved and I hope that my letters will make it clear they don't have a leg to stand on. In fact they might be in a lot of trouble if they did pursue the issue.

The silly thing is both I and my neighbour would pay a reasonable charge for a reasonable service. I won't pay invoices for a fictitious service or an imaginary contract, nor a service charge that is higher than anywhere else locally for the worst communal areas around. I also won't pay their 15% for managing the place when they don't seem to have a clue what they are doing. If they put a rocket up the a*se of their contractors two years ago this would never have escalated.

BTW I don't really want to name them at present as I don't want to risk them knowing my next move.

laineybird2000

can you check with company's house to see if the management co owns or has an interest in the cleaning co? 20 quid says they do.

good luck

Patrick20

Good on you mate. People these days never seem to dispute anything, companies get away with murder. Keep us all updated on your progress and all the best.