PCN in a closed road with double yellow lines.

mhussa

I got a PCN today in ilford on a road which had been closed due to roadworks on the main road.

The picture (that I can't upload due to a restriction on new users) shows a double yellow line just before the "road closed" sign where I had parked.

see pic at the following URL: tinypic.com/r/25jibty/5
(add http:// to it first, this is the only way I could add the post with the link).

The contravention on the PCN reads 'parked on a restricted street during prescribed hours'.

I made the (possibly flawed) assumption that since the road was closed there would be no affect on traffic flow or disturbance to any residents so blissfully parked there. I got back to see a nice new PCN and to top it off, the battery in the cameraphone went flat. I had to come back later to take the picture.

Anyway, it shows other people have also made the same assumption, one has even parked on the opposite side of the railings (no yellow lines so may be ok ).

I'm going to appeal it, but was wondering if anyone else here has had a similar problem?

thanks in advance,

P.S. the warden gave me 1 minute observation time (16:33-16:34), obviously a hit and run job.

peter_the_piper

Quite likely you parked in a road which was closed to all traffic, including parkers. Do the same for both sides of the parking ticket and anything else you have received after removing personal details and pics of any signs at the road entrance etc.

roddydogs

Fancy assuming that the council wouldnt give a ticket.......like the people who think "Bank Holidays" mean free parking.

TheBogsDollocks

If you parked for the purpose of loading or unloading then you could appeal on this point. If not, you would need a CEO or traffic order error to get the PCN squashed.

Careful_with_that_Axe

Special applications such as road closures overrule any street markings restricting parking. You would need to find out if the closure applied to parking too. If you parked say inside a coned area, the cones also override street markings as they form part of the working area.

mhussa

Fancy assuming that the council wouldnt give a ticket.......like the people who think "Bank Holidays" mean free parking.

It was interesting to watch while I took the pictures, a number of people parked there possibly assuming the same thing. If there had been a sign to say that the restrictions were still in force I would have driven a mile but there wasn't (see pictures). Is this some sort of 'honeypot' tactic?

PCN front image (add 'http://'):
tinypic.com/r/fdafjl/5

PCN back image (add 'http://'):
tinypic.com/r/291f7dl/5

view from main road left side(add 'http://'):
tinypic.com/r/30ti3qg/5

view from main road right side(add 'http://'):
tinypic.com/r/16202ft/5

Special applications such as road closures overrule any street markings restricting parking. You would need to find out if the closure applied to parking too. If you parked say inside a coned area, the cones also override street markings as they form part of the working area.

I've had a look through the redbridge website and there's no mention of the roadworks on ilford lane and road closures. It does mention other roadworks but not these probably slow on updates (weeks slow).

If what you say is true then that could be my best defence. I know ignorance is not allowed as a defence but how the hell are we supposed to keep up with minor traffic regulation legalities and still work, pay taxes and try not to get on the wrong side of any other law? (sigh).

If you parked for the purpose of loading or unloading then you could appeal on this point.

er.. I was loading and unloading a takeaway, does that count?

Thankyou for the suggestions and info.

Neil_B

Careful_with_that_Axe wrote: »

Special applications such as road closures overrule any street markings restricting parking. You would need to find out if the closure applied to parking too. If you parked say inside a coned area, the cones also override street markings as they form part of the working area.

What exactly does that mean? he can or he can't? He is not in a closed street.

Neil_B

Technically you are in contravention and it is correctly described. You are not parked in a closed road as you originally described.

I'm seeing one initial chance.

mhussa wrote: »

I made the (possibly flawed) assumption that since the road was closed there would be no affect on traffic flow or disturbance to any residents

I agree with your thinking and hence 'De Minimis' may apply. Normally thought to apply only to minor variations in markings etc AIUI the full meaning is different. 'The law does not concern itself with trifles' and 'of little or no consequence'.

For you, clearly the last of those interpretations applies. In the particular and unique circumstances at the time there could have been no consequence - as you have described.

---

redbridge also make a nice little faux pas when they reject your informal challenge. I've mentioned it here before but yet to come for you.
-

Neil_B

The observation time, you have assumed, is irrelevant. No requirement for one on the PCN and the real obs time is in the CEO's notes.
the time shown was for production of the PCN.
-

mhussa

Neil_B wrote: »

Technically you are in contravention and it is correctly described. You are not parked in a closed road as you originally described.-

Its not a 'permanently' closed road yes but was/is temporarily closed due to roadworks.

Neil_B wrote: »

I agree with your thinking and hence 'De Minimis' may apply. Normally thought to apply only to minor variations in markings etc AIUI the full meaning is different. 'The law does not concern itself with trifles' and 'of little or no consequence'.

For you, clearly the last of those interpretations applies. In the particular and unique circumstances at the time there could have been no consequence - as you have described.

---

redbridge also make a nice little faux pas when they reject your informal challenge. I've mentioned it here before but yet to come for you.
-

I am guilty of believing that the enforcing authority would see there was no consequence and would exercise discretion. Now looking back on it, its laughable. It really is about money, yes I am that naive. When the enforcers interpret the exact letter of the law without discretion (or common sense) its no wonder confidence in their motives has all but disappeared.

At the moment I have potentially two approaches:

1) Appeal to their sense of fairness and point out there were no consequence.

2) Find out if temporary road closures mean restricted parking is suspended or still in force. If it varies in different authorities then there may be a case for inadequate signage.

At the moment 1) looks the most UN-attractive option. Appealing to their sense of fairness seems pointless.

Careful_with_that_Axe

Neil_B wrote: »

What exactly does that mean? he can or he can't? He is not in a closed street.

He would have to look at the circumstances of the closure to find out whether the ticket was valid or not.