Paypal taken money & wont give it back!

shopaholic2639

We are a regular sellers via Ebay and therefore use PayPal for our transactions. We are also extremely careful when selling high price items and fully aware of scammers etc, but we never expected to be scammed by PayPal!!!
Back on 29th April we sold a mobile phone for £270, as usual the 'Buyer' sent their payment via PayPal and as normal payment was cleared and we were advised to send the package. Like everything we sell this was sent via 'Royal Mail Special Delivery', and was delivered the following day & signed for. A couple of weeks passed and a 'Dispute' was opened realting to this purchase which in turn meant that Paypal had taken the £270 from our account and put on hold. PayPal then requested we sent the tracking details to prove this was sent and delivered, which of course we did immediately. Thankfully a few days later the money was given back to us, but, this was not the end.
Another couple of weeks past and to our complete amazement, another dispute was raised by PayPal for the same transaction. This time we called immediately to find out what on earth had gone wrong, at this stage we were informed that the 'buyer' had used a fraudulent card to pay for the goods. Once again we were asked to send the tracking details and this time proof of postage, again we did this straight away. All this time the money was being held from our PayPal account, again! During the past few weeks we have made numerous phone calls and sent in complaint emails to hopefully speed the process up, each time the same response. 'It can take up to 30 days for a case to be investigated and a resolution met' However, we were also told that 'Due to the case being won in our favor the first time round it is likely it would be the same'
Today the case has been closed, but not in our favor, in favor of the 'buyer', and our money has not been given back!!
After calling PayPal to find out why this has happened I was amazed to hear a completely different story to what we were told when this all started. Aparently, the 'buyer' has said they did not receive the package!!! Even though we have sent the Proof of Postage and Royal Mail have confirmed it was delivered to the address, PayPal still refuse to give us our money back!! Now they are saying because they cannot see a signature this is not valid as proof of delivery. We have contacted Royal Mail who said they can send us the proof of signature and we expect to receive this in a few days. We also have PayPals so called 'Seller Protection' (note to others unless the address has been confirmed by PayPal 'Seller Protection' is non exsistant!!!)
We feel we have hit a brick wall, and apart from sending yet another email/letter of complaint I dont know where we can go from here?
Paypal have one main role and that is to provide a service where payment transactions are checked and authorised. Surely if PayPal have accepted a payment that is fraudulent then they should bare the cost not the seller!? I am extremely frustrated, annoyed, angry and upset about the whole situation and desperately seek some advice on the matter.
We are considering small claims court, but un sure of the costs, time & what is envolved in the process. We do not feel we should loose out for something we dont have control over and acted completely proffesionally and correctly through this entire mess. How can PayPal be allowed to get away with this appalling service they are providing? I am sure we are not alone in this either.
Please help us!!

substandard

Can't you wait until Royal Mail provides you with proof of signature and then go back to Paypal with it? Have you been able to talk to someone on the phone, yet?

shopaholic2639

Well, I dont think this will resolve the matter as the person we spoke to didnt seem to think it will make a difference. We are getting the proof of signature to back us up and this means we will have to raise a new dispute ourselves saying this was delivered. However, PayPal have said we can do this, but, they keep bringing up a technicality saying, 'We arent Seller Protected because the address has not been confirmed' My argument is, PayPal's duties are to check peoples identity and confirm address's, how were we supposed to know that if an address is not confirmed that we post it at our own risk? Even though PayPal have authorised the payment and then advised to send the item!! What are you supposed to do, decline everyone who hasnt had their address confirmed, probably majority of people havent!

substandard

This is very confusing. Aren't they saying that the buyer has claimed the item never arrived? If you can prove that it did, then I don't see what seller protection has to do with it.

I wouldn't worry what one person said to you on the phone - he/she might have been having a bad day or not have a clue what they're on about. Just call to talk to someone again and try to get to the bottom of what's happened.

The tone of your post is quite strong and a bit muddled, and if you're like that over the phone it will make things harder, so take it slowly and calmly. I would have thought that you don't want to consider legal action until you've taken this as far as you can.

shopaholic2639

I may sound confusing but thats what PayPal are telling us. I know it doesnt add up nor does it make sense. We have tried to be calm with them on the phone & have spoken to numerous people non of which are that forth coming. I agree if we can provide the signature it should end this. But, having experienced this it has made me doubtful. I think what PayPal are trying to tell us, is that even if we can provide proof, if the address isnt confirmed in the first place it could be going to a fraudelent address the same as it was paid by a fraudelent credit card. But how that is our fault is beyond me. I plan to call again once I have finished work, but no doubt will be faced with a 30min wait on the phones. My tone is likely to be because I am frustrated with the time we have already spent on this matter, if you have ever needed to call them you would apreciate how diffiicult it is to get the answers you are looking for.

substandard

No offense intended. I've always heard good things about Paypal customer service, but I've never had to get them on the phone. There's obviously some confusion here, whether at your end or theirs, in which case I'd make sure you keep getting passed up the chain of customer service reps until you get to someone who can make it clear what the problem is and what you need to do to resolve it.

Clearly from what you've said, common sense should prevail in the end, but until you've got a very clear idea of what the problem is, I wouldn't threaten legal action.

Incidentally, somewhere on this board was a thread about someone who Royal Mail wouldn't deliver to because the didn't recognise his address on their system (even though it had been getting post for years!). Perhaps the buyer had a similar problem? Either way, you won't know for sure until you've got the signature proof.

Drea

Just wanted to jump in here and say that Paypal customer service is terrible. At least it was when I had problems.

Good luck with it, I had a similiar problem and never got my money back off them but I hope you get better luck.

shopaholic2639

Agree! I plan to speak to perhaps someone at a Supervisor level or Management. I dont think we will be threating legal action just yet, but advice on this is something thats in my mind. Just one last thing, you seem to have missed my point. Up until today each time we have spoken to anyone the 'dispute' so we were told was because the transaction was fraudelent, this was backed up on Ebay, the 'buyers' recent feedback is now 'Do not accept as fraudelent cards used' Shame it wasnt before we were caught out. I have no doubt the item was delivered but think PayPal have taken our money for this error and I wont be surprised that they will get away with it either. Thanks for your responses.

shopaholic2639

Drea wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say that Paypal customer service is terrible. At least it was when I had problems.

Good luck with it, I had a similiar problem and never got my money back off them but I hope you get better luck.

Thanks, I knew we couldnt be alone in this! I find it so frustrating that not only are PayPal deceiving us but they seem to be able to get away with it somehow!

substandard

I did see that part of your post, but if you've got proof from royal mail that challenges what they're saying to you now then that's probably your easiest route to resolution.

Let us know how you get on, though, because it will be interesting to know how to be sure your buyer's address is recognised as legit.

shopaholic2639

Thanks I will do. Keep you updated on progress. Fingers crossed I manage to get somewhere this evening.