Advice on Salaries!

gundo

I sincerely hope you get this mess sorted out. As for not mentioning the external salary when you're discussing it, that's nonsense!

I know this the sound of a stable door closing long after the horse has bolted and disappeared over the horizon BUT (and I'm sure you don't want to hear this ) how could you accept a new job without being clear what the salary was when you agreed to take it.

I've had a few jobs in my time and for nearly every single one I never accepted the job formally until it was made exactly clear what the salary would be. The one time I didn't I had exactly the same trouble as you (it was an internal promotion/job change). I was temporarily paid an enhancement and then after a year they attempted to take this away and give me two increments instead which amounted to a 15-20% pay cut! When I complained I was given a load of bull about central admin/HR not allowing the pay to go up more than two increments a year blah-blah. They admitted that they were more than happy with my work and there wasn't a problem with my performance.

At the time I said nothing and just looked for alternative employment. A month later I handed in my notice after being offered a significantly higher salary elsewhere. I was immediately called into a meeting with the top man where I explained I was moving on to pursue better opportunities and that the salary cut had left a bad taste in my mouth etc. I made no threats, I just handed my notice in with some dignity. He asked if I could wait a couple of days before he accepted my resignation so he could see what he could do. I said ok.

Miraculously within a few days I was offered the salary I'd been on previously (including enhancement) plus a rise as a my new salary and it was backdated to the time my salary was cut.

Hmmm...

Stupidly I accepted and stayed on. Looking back on it I should have moved on and taken the offer I had elsewhere. I left some 2 years later in the end anyway.

Good luck. I hope it works out well for you. If not, then either learn to live with it or leave. Not pleasant options I know but if this is the way they treat employees you may be better off moving on anyway.

Just my 2p worth obviously...

exil

Seems companies are taking their cue from US practice, where (a) you are not allowed to discuss salaries with fellow workers and (b) your salary is purely between you and your boss. The aim is to stop a team of workers colluding to demand wage rises (even without a union).

mr_fishbulb

Salaries are so annoying.

I'm looking for work at the moment. I'm looking for around 22K because I need at least that to get a good mortgage. But I am seeing jobs advertised for 18-25K! (nearly a 40% difference!) One I applied for and was turned down because I didn't have one of the requirements, but met all the others. I would have thought if you are advertising a position with such a large range in salary then there would be some leeway on the skills.

Sorry - letting off a bit of steam.

tomh_2

desiman,

It's a tough situation, and the trouble is how you get an acceptable outcome without making your work atmosphere bad. One thought was that if after reading the letter (and meeting your boss again to discuss) they are still not offering you something acceptable, you could decline the position. You would be no worse off than before, and they would have to readvertise. The important thing is that when they offer you a role, the balance of power shifts to you benefit. You were the candidate they preferred and want to give the job to, they have the budget as advertised, so how hard is it going to be for them to explain why you are declining the job and why they need an extra £x to readvertise the role!

If you push too hard and start 'talking legal' at them, then you become an irritant and they'll try to out-law you. If you stick to your guns, in a reasoned and amicable way, then you'll be fine...

tomh_2

mr_fishbulb wrote:

Salaries are so annoying.

I'm looking for work at the moment. I'm looking for around 22K because I need at least that to get a good mortgage. But I am seeing jobs advertised for 18-25K! (nearly a 40% difference!) One I applied for and was turned down because I didn't have one of the requirements, but met all the others. I would have thought if you are advertising a position with such a large range in salary then there would be some leeway on the skills.

Sorry - letting off a bit of steam.

Salaries are annoying and sometimes people try to screw you, but I disagree with you on salary ranges.

The company are looking to find a person of a suitable 'shape' to fit their role. There could be someone with most of the criteria who needs more training and experience who would be worth £18k. There could be someone who could drop right in worth £25k. So having a broad range gives you more candidates to work with.

As to meeting most of the skills but not all, you need to consider it from their perspective. They'll get 200 CVs from an advert and can cut it to 50 by just taking away hand written CVs, spelling mistakes, no work permit, stupid e-mail addresses.. whatever they feel like. Out of the 50 left, they need 10 max to interview. If there are 10 people who match ALL of the spec, why would they need to look at someone with something missing?

It's a tough process and lots of companies do it badly, but there is a difference between the original salary problem, and there being other candidates more qualified to do the job than you...

mr_fishbulb

tomh wrote:

The company are looking to find a person of a suitable 'shape' to fit their role. There could be someone with most of the criteria who needs more training and experience who would be worth £18k. There could be someone who could drop right in worth £25k. So having a broad range gives you more candidates to work with.

Then saying that, you would expect someone who started at 18K to be on 25K in a few years after they gain skills and experience, but still doing the same job. That isn't going to happen.

gibson123

Oh dear! Karl Marx once said that people are only worth what others will pay for their labour, this is so true, If you can get ALL the skills you want for the lowest salary then why would you not do this. If you want a higher salary then you have to be worth it. if you are of more value to your company than you are being paid then ask for a raise. If they agree with your viewpoint and dont want to lose you they will pay up. If you fall short of their expectation then no luck and you need to raise your game. In Britain today there is a shortage of skills and knowledge, if you feel your skills are undervalued then ask for more money, chances are if you are pderforming you will get it.

roswell

The one word you need here is negotiation, i think it would be a vary bad move to demand full external advertised salary as soon as you get the possition, instead once you get the letter, if its not acceptable to yourself see your manager advise that you have taken / taking the position on the basis of a X amount increase (say 10 / 15 %) , you understand that you may not have full experiance in this role and there for would like to negotiae further, In 3 months you want to review and reflect on your last 3 months performance and based on your results you would expect a bonus if you exceded expectations, in a further 3 months you would like to review the situation again, in this time if you have performed in line or exceded the previouse 3 months you would take a further 5 / 10 % increase ..... six months from then review again ... its a great way to "get your moneys worth" from your manager, basicaly you could see it that you black mail them into paying you for exception performance and you put in place a structure that should be acceptable for both them and yourselves.

SELL YOUR SELF

roswell

Failing that dont take the position you will be no worse off with less responcibility.

Old_No.7

In my firm we've just hired someone based on an ad without any salary specified. When we were told in the staff meeting that he had accepted the job, my boss' boss told the boss off as she'd "obviously" gone in too high with the salary offer and we might have got him for less... Depressing attitude.