Grounds for Appeal - Contravention Code 27

t4xy

Hi

I am a licenced london taxi Driver (black cab) and I got one of these code 27 tickets yesterday from Newham council, I had a elderly blind wheelchair user on board, I pulled up and used the wheelchair ramps to get the passenger out, put the ramps away and pushed the wheelchair 50 yards to the womans address, I couldnt pull up outside her home due to congested parking, when I returned to my cab I had a ticket and not a warden in sight (I swear they hide in the trees) I was going to appeal on the grounds that I was doing my job and assisting a fare paying passenger, its like giving a bus a ticket for pulling up at a bus stop but after reading this thread I would appretiate any advice on the best grounds to appeal on?

Kind regards

Peter

Coupon-mad

t4xy wrote: »

Hi

I am a licenced london taxi Driver (black cab) and I got one of these code 27 tickets testerday from Newham council, I had a elderly blind wheelchair user on board, I pulled up and used the wheelchair ramps to get the passenger out, put the ramps away and pushed the wheelchair 50 yards to the womans address, I couldnt pull up outside her home due to congested parking, when I returned to my cab I had a ticket and not a warden in sight (I swear they hide in the trees) I was going to appeal on the grounds that I was doing my job and assisting a fare paying passenger, its like giving a bus a ticket for pulling up at a bus stop but after reading this thread I would appretiate any advive on the best grounds to appeal on?

Kind regards

Peter

Best advice is to go to pepipoo forums here and they can help you appeal this. I am SchoolRunMum over there so may well add something if you start a thread, but do stay over there with this one because there are lots of experts on that forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Read a few threads, you will see you have to show them both sides of the PCN in your first post. Register, read the FAQs such as 'how to post pictures' and start your own topic. They can help you - if your thread drops down below page one and you need further advice just add a reply each time asking for what you need advice on, and/or showing them the letters that arrive during the process.

Helping an elderly or disabled person, or a minor, to board or alight from a vehicle can be an exemption from a PCN in some circumstances - certainly it would be if you'd been on a double yellow line for example. Dropped kerbs, not sure if they will go down without a fight but it has GOT to be worth appealing under the circs you describe.

I would do a simple first appeal explaining that you were helping an elderly passenger and needed to park at the dropped footway to save them from having to struggle to step down onto the camber of the road then back up onto the kerb. Say that you understand that dropped kerbs are there to aid disabled and elderly people - and as that was exactly what you were doing to hope they will cancel the PCN this time as an exemption of 'assisted alighting'. Spell it out for them to make it easy (hopefully) for the Council to allow it.

Then if the Council play hard-ball, pepipoo wll help you with the next stage of appeal. Do not give up.

Most PCNs can be successfully appealed; it's a fact that most people win who go as far as adjudication, even without online forum help.

And most people win who get pepipoo advice (over 90%, certainly). For example, there are often technical appeals you would never have thought to add; e.g. Hounslow windscreen PCNs are flawed, as are some TFL postal PCNs (wording flaws in both cases which have won at adjudications); and most PCNs for parking contraventions that are issued by post (caught on camera) are won on appeal if you know what to say.

Orford

Loading/unloading is allowed.
See Page 33 CEO Handbook here:
http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/policylobbying/transport/parkinginlondon/ceohandbook.htm

And exemption A is:
A. Setting down and/or picking up of passengers, or to load
or unload any personal luggage

t4xy

Thanks for the advice I will give it my best shot, I cant use the "I was using the dropped kerb for its intended purpose" argument as I had pulled up next to a full height kerb which aids getting wheelchairs out, if you pull up with no kerb the wheelchair ramps become to steep and can be frightening for the passenger, the higher the kerb the better. I was only partially obstructing the dropped kerb with my nearside rear wheel. I think I will appeal on the grounds I was setting down a passenger and see where we go from there. Am I right in thinking that I can appeal and if it goes as far as the adjudicator and I lose I can still pay at the reduced 50% rate if I pay within 14 days of the decision?

Coupon-mad

No, if you go as far as adjudication it's all or nothing because the discounted penalty is only offered in the early stages (as a bribe, that's how many of us on pepipoo see it).

But personally I would not even be thinking about the amount because chances are you will pay nothing. Put in an informal appeal saying you were setting down and elderly passenger so it was a case of assisted alighting. You need to spell it out, not just say you were setting down a passenger or you'll get a refusal that says 'but the CEO says the car was unattended...'

You will almost certainly win but may have to go as far as adjudication. Stick with it, you will be amazed at the help on pepipoo if it does take that long to get the PCN cancelled, and you will probably never want to consider 'just paying' a PCN in future.

t4xy

Thanks again

I am going to take it all the way, after reading the ceo handbook it also states that an observation period is required and my PCN has the start of the observation period at 14:20 and the time of the offence also 14:20 which proves that the ceo issued the ticket immediatly and dissapeared before I could return.

Coupon-mad

t4xy wrote: »

Thanks again

I am going to take it all the way, after reading the ceo handbook it also states that an observation period is required and my PCN has the start of the observation period at 14:20 and the time of the offence also 14:20 which proves that the ceo issued the ticket immediatly and dissapeared before I could return.

There is an observation period for some contraventions such as parking on DYL (to check for signs of loading/unloading which is OK). But for many there is no observation period, and I think dropped kerbs is one of those.

Was the person you were assisting using a wheelchair or walking aid - if so then mention it.

t4xy

According to the ceo handbook which Orford posted a observation period is required, the passenger was very elderly Blind and in a wheelchair, not exactly someone you can leave by the side of the road, my appeal is in the post to Newham council so I will update when I recieve their reply.

t4xy

An update on my appeal is its now February 2012 and I havent heard a thing since I sent in my reasons for not paying the fine, thats 3 months with no reply, I have checked and they recieved my letter, is there a time limit for them to take action?

Coupon-mad

t4xy wrote: »

An update on my appeal is its now February 2012 and I havent heard a thing since I sent in my reasons for not paying the fine, thats 3 months with no reply, I have checked and they recieved my letter, is there a time limit for them to take action?

They have to issue a Notice to Owner within 6 months of the PCN I think, if they are to take this further. Just sit tight and if they do send you a rejection letter then post it up on your pepipoo thread - or start one if you haven't yet!

What you don't want to do is prompt the Council, so do not contact them!

But if there's an online system to view the pics taken or make payment, why not try logging on with your PCN number (don't actually pay obviously). Is the PCN number still being accepted as live?