T-mobile - calls 'outside allowance'

Microstar_2

About time there was a national campaign to sort out the charging of calls to UK mobile phones and what is (and isn't) a 'regular' call.
I have just moved to a T-mobile Flext plan (from Virgin). I have been billed (at a high rate) for the following calls:

1. Vodafone customer services (0783...). I was billed about 50p a minute for this. The T-mobile CS Assistant told me that this was because its an 'off net' number. What does this mean? I can find no reference to this is the T&C's or price plan documentation. The CS was unable to tell me what it meant either!

2. Two calls to two different normal 07.. numbers. I got charged for both of these. The CS said that one was because one was a 'private number' and a 'diversion may have been in place' (again, what does this mean, it was to a private individual and I know that there was no number divert). The other 07 number flagged up as an 'international number'. There was no explanation for this and the charge was removed.

A manager is going to call me to discuss these issues, but it does seem that there is a desperate lack of transparency in call charges. Surely any charges for diversions, the use of 'private numbers' (whatever they are) should be met by the recipient of the call and not the individual making the call? Any call to a number 07X (where X= 1 to 9) should be charged at standard mobile rates - 070 is a premium number and highlighted as such in the T&C's, there is no mention of 'off-net' or 'private' numbers...

dmg24

Off net calls are those that are not included in your calling plan. You would need to check your plan to find out what is included.

You will be charged a higher rate if you call a UK mobile when it is overseas.

Personal numbers (I assume this is what you mean by a Private Number) are charged at a higher rate than most calls. This cost is met by the caller, not the owner of the number.

Microstar_2

dmg24 wrote: »

Off net calls are those that are not included in your calling plan. You would need to check your plan to find out what is included.

No mention in my price plan of 'off net'. Lists 08.., 09, 070, 0500 etc as being outside of allowance, but no mention of anything else or 'off net'.

You will be charged a higher rate if you call a UK mobile when it is overseas.

Really? I have been abroad many times and when I've been called from the UK I have always met the cost of the call segment from UK to my overseas location (roaming charge).

Personal numbers (I assume this is what you mean by a Private Number) are charged at a higher rate than most calls. This cost is met by the caller, not the owner of the number.

OK, but how does a caller distinguish between a 'personal number' and a standard UK mobile phone number? The number I called just looked like a regular UK mobile number.

.........'''''''

DrScotsman

You will be charged a higher rate if you call a UK mobile when it is overseas.

Do you mean if the mobile you call (and not yourself) is overseas? Rubbish! Proof please.

OK, but how does a caller distinguish between a 'personal number' and a standard UK mobile phone number? The number I called just looked like a regular UK mobile number.

No mobile numbers start with 070. If the number you called did not begin with 070 then someone is either lying or making a mistake.

As for that Vodafone number I am completely lost. 077, 078 and 079 are all mobile rate.

moneymogul

You will NOT be charged any more than usual when calling someone on their mobile phone when they are abroad as they pay to receive the call to cover the cost difference compared to if you were both in the UK. If you have free minutes cross-network to UK mobiles then these can be used as normal if the other person is abroad with their mobile.

Microstar_2

moneymogul wrote: »

You will NOT be charged any more than usual when calling someone on their mobile phone when they are abroad as they pay to receive the call to cover the cost difference compared to if you were both in the UK. If you have free minutes cross-network to UK mobiles then these can be used as normal if the other person is abroad with their mobile.

I know! The post by 'dmg24' is a load of nonsense.

Microstar_2

DrScotsman wrote: »

As for that Vodafone number I am completely lost. 077, 078 and 079 are all mobile rate.

That was the point of my post. T-mobile are arguing that the 078 number I called was what they describe as an 'off net' number. Apparently they are saying it was diverted to a landline and I have to pick up the cost of the diversion! They will not budge on this and are charging me for the call at premium rate outside of my allowance. There is nothing in my price plan or T&C's that mentions 'off net' tariffs or how/when they are applied. Now, my argument is that anyone can divert incoming calls, but the cost of diversion should be met by the recipient, not by me! T-mobile say I should take the matter up with Vodafone - which would be totally fruitless, no doubt.
IMHO the whole mobile industry should be looked at again, by a regulator with real teeth. At the moment it seems the service providers are free to pick and choose what they charge and the caller has no way of knowing (from looking at the number) whether, say, an 078 number is included in the allowance or to be charged at 50p a minute.
As for the T-mobile CS assistant who told me that it costs more to call a UK mobile that's abroad - well, words fail me!.

Microstar_2

OK, after some research I have now found the following in T-mobile's T&C's:

Diverted calls are charged at the local or national
call rate or, if appropriate, the relevant mobile or
special number rate. Diverted calls are not included
in any inclusive allowance you may have.

Personally I think this is very worrying. It is possible to set up a diversion from a standard landline/mobile number and divert to a premium rate service without the caller being aware, yet the caller foots the bill.
Good scam here - e.g. stick an ad in Autotrader for a nice car very cheap - keep the callers talking and you'll rake in the money!
In my case I made an 18 min call to a number begining 078 at 50p min.

redux

The Vodafone CS prefix 078361 is listed as so-called national rate, which despite its ambiguity might tend to mean some companies would charge it the same as an 0870

Perhaps this is a hangover from the early days of mobiles, when the intention would have been that from say a BT landline it would be cheaper to call this than an ordinary mobile

O2 included it when I called Vodafone CS a couple of days ago, and I think you ought to have grounds to hope that T-mobile would reconsider this.

Of the other 2 numbers you called, it sounds like the second may have been an Isle of Man or Channel Islands mobile, which T-mobile exclude

As for the call diversion issue, I suspect you've misunderstood this. Rather like the mobile abroad, the caller isn't affected by what happens after they dial a number; the cost of the diversion of your mobile falls on your mobile bill, not the person calling you.

Microstar_2

redux wrote: »

As for the call diversion issue, I suspect you've misunderstood this. Rather like the mobile abroad, the caller isn't affected by what happens after they dial a number; the cost of the diversion of your mobile falls on your mobile bill, not the person calling you.

No, I have now had a T-mobile manager call me and confirm that the cost of call diversion falls to the caller, not the recipient. I made the point that the call could be diverted to Tokyo and I would end up with an almighty bill. He conceded the point, but its in their T&C's so his hands were tied.

redux

Microstar wrote: »

No, I have now had a T-mobile manager call me and confirm that the cost of call diversion falls to the caller, not the recipient. I made the point that the call could be diverted to Tokyo and I would end up with an almighty bill. He conceded the point, but its in their T&C's so his hands were tied.

Well, that manager is an idiot for 2 or more reasons, unless there were ambiguities in the conversation and you misunderstood.

It's a general principle that someone pays the tariff for the call they are making, and that if that call is diverted from that destination to elsewhere, this causes no extra expense to the caller. You can't be billed a higher price than the call being made.

This should be intuitively obvious. If you call a customer support line on a UK number, but the call centre itself happens to be in India or South Africa, you do not pay the cost of an international call.

If you divert your landline to your mobile, and answer, someone calling the home pays the cost of a landline, and your home bill will show the cost of a call to your mobile.

Even if you use a callthrough service from your mobile, which of course T-mobile would prefer you didn't, you pay the price of the access number only, not the onward international destination (unless you misdial and hold one call and start a second; so don't press Send after the second number)

In addition, T-mobile does not in any case support diversion to international destinations, so you can't divert your mobile to Japan. But if I diverted my O2 number and then you called it, you pay the cost to call O2, I'd pay for Japan.