Ticket received today - with scans 29 May 2009 at 11:32PM edited 29 May 2009 at 11:34PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking 20 replies 4.8K views

Pontebantam

Please find attached scans of the ticket received by my wife, we will try appeal this but can anyone confirm if this ticket is actually legal ? Nothing to say we can get it reduced it pay promptly etc.

Parked in tesco car park in pontefract, wife went to nearby shop to get change, got back and ticket been given !

All help appreciated as always,

Vinny

Rear

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/pontebantam/Parking%20Ticket/HPIM3167.jpg

Front

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/pontebantam/Parking%20Ticket/HPIM3168.jpg

bargepole

I'm not an expert on Council tickets (Neil B will be along soon), but I believe that as this is issued under RTRA 1984 rather than decriminalised parking, you would have to fight it out in a Mags court if you wish to contest it. Might be best just to pay, but see what others think.

Coblcris

Interesting. As I recall council enforcement of off-street was only introduced in the RTA 1991. Section 35 does deal with off-street but a designated parking place is defined in section 45 and only applies to on-street. This needs someone more familiar with the 1984 Act than my memory is. You would have to fight this in Magistrate's Court. Here is the Act http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?activeTextDocId=2223862 If it was me I would read the act closely and if the findings confirmed my suspicions I would fight this not only for the single ticket but to stop the council from issuing these off-street completely. Needs some study to confirm.

Neil_B

coblcris I think you might have that the wrong way round? On-street from 1991 Act. (introduced a few years later).

Many Councils still use criminal RTRA 1984 legislation to enforce and mainly in car parks. Often on-street is then the responsibility of the County Council but RTRA seems blanket in Wakefield.

As both posters say dispute is ultimately in Mags Court which is not advisable. They do offer an initial written appeal facility though. That said, going to get change is not normally acceptable.

I didn't see an offer of a discounted amount for early payment? Maybe not essential under RTRA 1984 where all the requirements for a ticket are more lax.

i agree with BP, i'd pay personally.

I don't quite understand why you think this is a Tesco car park? It must be Council.

The only thing I did note on their website was a non-compliant sample P&D sign - but I'd still probably pay even if yours was the same.

Pontebantam

I don't quite understand why you think this is a Tesco car park? It must be Council.

The only thing I did note on their website was a non-compliant sample P&D sign - but I'd still probably pay even if yours was the same.

Thanks for the advice - it does seem that paying may be the better option after an appeal - I say a Tesco car park as the car park is sited on the large Tesco in Pontefract, we're used to calling it the Tesco car park as Tesco have trolley bays etc there, but the P&D is signed as Wakefield MDC.

Thanks once again (to all),

Vinny

PS - It's a shame we can't take this down the route of unfair charges or something similar - paying a £45 penalty for a parking spot which costs £1.80 seems extortianate.

Neil_B

Pontebantam wrote: »

PS - It's a shame we can't take this down the route of unfair charges or something similar - paying a £45 penalty for a parking spot which costs £1.80 seems extortianate.

LOL. It's a lot less than many of us are asked to pay?!!! Funny odd amount though.

I'm still curious about the absence of a discount. I simply don't know the answer.
-

Neil_B

If you really wanted to research it you could always go and view the Off Street Parking Places Order for the location. Might be interesting with the Tesco/Council thang and may mention fine levels and discounts???
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Coblcris

Neil, 1991 was deciminalised, this isn't,
best review of the different regs that I recall (which is what my post was based on, haven't read the '84 in a dogs age) is the 2005 NPAS report http://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/downloads/NPAS2005Report05.pdf also very handy for its discussion on TROs. For this latter point alone I commend it.

Neil_B

Coblcris wrote: »

Interesting. As I recall council enforcement of off-street was only introduced in the RTA 1991.

That was the bit I was querying. You appear to be saying there was no Council enforcement off-street prior to the 1991 Act which I believe commenced in 1994.

that was the first decriminalised and uptake has always been optional. This is nothing to do with it and RTRA1984 is entirely valid.

Coblcris

correct, I double looped or something. apologies.
May still be something in the section 35 45 thing but may hinge en exact wording. I have learned that just because a council has been doing something for years it doesn't necessarily mean they have been doing it correctly. Always worth a look just in case.

Gordon861

I thought Councils when they issued tickets were supposed to fill in all the details on their forms.

Did they get all the vehicle details correct?
They normally seem to log the vehicle colour and Tax Details(they even have a space for Tax Details).

Also did your wife actually buy a ticket on the way back to the car?
If she did you have grounds for an appeal and evidence that you were going to get change for the machine when the guy ticketed you.