Trading standards question ???

Shaun_adams

Hi trading standards came today at first a lad same height as me oldish appearance (I am 23) came and bought an 18 game while my girlfriend was serving, I had nipped to the toilet.

He then came back with a man and woman who claimed they where from the trading standards and that my girlfriend would get a warning for this, if she did it again there would be £5000 fine or (and) 6 months in prison.

What I don't like is my girlfriend judged his age as 18 and he looked that, he was taller than the trading standards guy that cam up with him, what is the law regarding this as I always go to the pictures and get in for 18's since I was 16.

If the law is to ask everyone Warner bros, ASDA and most places I can think of must be on there 2000th warning or be out of business as only about 10% of the population carry ID.

I don't like how they send a nearly 18 year old lad up, I can understand with a 12 year old or if I was selling Tobacco, Drink or knifes but DVD's.

bingo_bango

The whole point is that your GF has served someone almost 18, but not quite.

It is illegal to sell certain goods to under 18's and yes, the maximum available for summary conviction is up to £5000 fine and / or 6 months imprisonment. If you elect to go to trial and lose, the fine is unlimited.

A defence against that would of course be his appearance. You would need to convince a judge that he looked over the age, and he if he did look older, then it shouldn't really be an issue,. The law does set out defences against such charges. Due diligence is one such, but would mean you checking everyone that looks remotely close to 18 for ID.

Shaun_adams

What I don't like about all this is the fact that a lot of people look older nowadays and what happens next time I assume there age and I am wrong.

I will ask for I.D if the person looks younger or on the verge but you can never tell these days.

I bet half of 15yr olds are out clubbing tonight.

I always walk into Vue cinema or buy Game's, DVD's from shops and they never check my age and have done since 15, one of these must be out of business by now.

What can I do I know the right way and only way would be to ask everyone for I.D but this would never work as I have never carried I.D in my life.

Is there no way to cover myself like a sign of some kind.

SkipE

Trading Standards Volunteers as they are called must look under 18. They will not choose someone who looks too close to 18 as, as the poster above points out, you have a defence.

What would be the point in that? It would be a waste of their time!

They will have a photo of the volunteer and if they are a good TS Dept they will show the volunteers height. You may ask to see this.

But in all honesty from my experience there are only fews ways to get out of a Test Purchase.

Sorry just going off my previous experinece with age related test purchases.

bingo_bango

I'm afraid not. Well, not in any easy way anyway.

The Due Diligence defence works by you showing that you have taken all reasonable precautions to stop this happening. Implementing staff training to make them aware of the risks and offences. Ensuring that all staff involved in sales are aware that they need to ask for ID if concerned, (and that would need to include training for dealing with the difficult customers, for your staff's peace of mind if nothing else). Keep records of any training (which doesn't need to be formal or structured, just prepare a set of guidelines and have everyone read it and sign to say they did so), and update it when new staff start, or annually.

It's an ufortunate side effect of life these days, and if you are in the retail business, then the buck stops with you as far as the law is concerned.

As far as I'm aware one of the major chains is asking for ID for anyone under 25, and lots are now asking if you look younger than 21. Someone else has posted a thread recently about Asda asking them for ID. Just shows that if they are taking it seriously, then everyone else needs to.

By the way. Now that you have had a failed visit, expect another. It might be a couple of months, but it's guaranteed they will come back to check on you (could be several months though). If you have your records of training etc in place, not much they will be able to do.

Stop worrying and get on with the weekend. It'll be fine.

Shaun_adams

I know you are helping but I would defiantly after disagree when the person was higher than the trading standard's guy and about the same height as me.

Also I would admit he looked a young 18 but that's what I am saying if he looks 18 to me then what do I do.

I can understand if the lad was 12.

I will defiantly ask for I.D next time but if I don't server people that look 18 to me and ask everyone for I.D I won't have any money to lose.

Also what happens next time ????

In six years this has never happend before.

Shaun_adams

I like this from trading standards

Volunteer children must be at least 18 months younger than the age required for the product. So test purchasers for alcohol, for example, where the age limit is 18, must be no older than sixteen and a half. Test purchasers for cigarettes, age limit 16, will be teenagers below fourteen and a half.


I bet I could pick some 16 1/2 year old lads that look older than 18 I never had a problem, they should be no older than 14 for 18 and so on.


I think the way they did this was wrong.

bingo_bango

Shaun_adams wrote: »

I bet I could pick some 16 1/2 year old lads that look older than 18 I never had a problem, they should be no older than 14 for 18 and so on.


I think the way they did this was wrong.

And therein lies the problem. The law is there to query your perceptions and ensure that you take the strictest path. If the test subject looked obviously under 18/16 then there would be no real point in sending them in, as you wouldn't serve them (at least I get the impression you wouldn't consider it).
The point of doing the test purchases is to ensure that those in retail do have the appropriate checks in place.

Can I suggest that you contact TSS when they write out to you (there will be a contact name on the letter)? Tell them you need advice on ensuring compliance witth the Consumer Protection Act after their last visit. You'll find them surprisingly easy to deal with, and they'll give you invaluable advice. All free as well!

Savvy_Sue

Just because you've never carried ID doesn't mean no-one else does. And disagreeing with the way TS did the test won't be any defence either! Nor will saying "I was able to buy X, Y and Z underage in the following shops." It's not THEM who might end up in court this time!

Do as bingo bango says, get advice from TS, improve your training for all staff, put up a sign saying you will ask for ID if people look as if they are under 21 or 25, and start doing it, problem solved.

sablade

the moral of the story is, unless they look over 25 alway get ID to save a fine

Ste_C

The challenge 25 scheme used by supermarkets who sell alcohol is used to give them a greater margin of error.

In future, I would do the same as them, that way you cover your own back.

It's a pity common sense can't be used, but some things aren't worth chancing