Buyer wants refund after almost 4 weeks (& after they left +ve feedback!)

GoofyGAT

Hi All,

Sold something more than 3 weeks ago. Sold as secondhand & working - it definitely was as I was using the item up to that point. Item was sold under the 'No Returns Accepted' status. It's a bit of a sensitive item that can be damaged with improper/inexperienced handling. Incidentally, the item was very well packaged & the buyer didn't mention any physical damage.

Now the buyer says s/he has only just tried it for the first time a couple of days ago to find it non-working. Been through a few troubleshooting tips with them via email, & the buyer has asked for technical help on other forums to no avail.

They are now threatening to take it up with eBay/PayPal. Where do I stand with this please? The item costs just under £100. Any tips, comments much appreciated.

I'm a private buyer/seller with 100% positive feedback over several years of being a member (not even a single neutral), & always list my items with full honesty. I've only ever sold one 'faulty' item in the past & gave a detailed description of the fault. G

P.S. Sorry, forgot to mention initially that the buyer had already left me positive feedback 2 days after receiving the package, & I returned the favour (have updated the thread title as well now)

pinkshoes

They have 45 days to open a dispute... if it has been damaged in transit, then you will have to refund them, and make a claim from Royal Mail (or the courier).

It does seem a little odd they've had it for 4 weeks before testing it!!

GoofyGAT

Thanks pinkshoes, I don't think it has been physically damaged in transit, as already stated. Item was sent very well packaged & sent via RM Special Delivery.

I think their excuse for not testing earlier is that they didn't have the time. G

GoofyGAT

Bump^. Nobody else has ever had this problem then?

Today, I sent a polite message stating my reasons for not being able to offer a refund.

As I'm only a casual seller (avg of 4-5 items a year), I'm not really worried about repeat business & have already placed this particular member in my blocked-bidders list as a precaution. G

GoofyGAT

Well, the buyer has since raised a dispute, & I've been in touch with PayPal over the phone this morning. They are advising that I raise it to a claim before the buyer does, as this will show I'm working with the process/buyer & disputing it from my side too, which I should be doing if I'm the innocent party.

Please let me know if this advice is correct. G

alfiesmum

I always thought that raising it to a claim is to hurry up the process of the buyer returning the item to you for a refund? Could be wrong though, I've only ever had one item returned, and not had a dispute thingy ever.
Someone more knowledgeable wil be along to explain it to us both soon I hope!

alfiesmum
x

GoofyGAT

alfiesmum wrote: »

I always thought that raising it to a claim is to hurry up the process of the buyer returning the item to you for a refund?

Thanks alfiesmum, I think you're right.

I shall hold my ground a while longer then & hope & pray the buyer is able to see the commonsense in this situation & cancel the claim.

PP did mention something to the effect that if it came to refunding I could make a counterclaim that it was not as I had originally sent it, etc. And that they would take into consideration the time factor & positive feedback already left. But, going from a past negative experience (where I was the buyer & in the right), I don't trust PP will actually help me out this time either. G

cyril82

GoofyGAT wrote: »

Thanks alfiesmum, I think you're right.

I shall hold my ground a while longer then & hope & pray the buyer is able to see the commonsense in this situation & cancel the claim.

PP did mention something to the effect that if it came to refunding I could make a counterclaim that it was not as I had originally sent it, etc. And that they would take into consideration the time factor & positive feedback already left. But, going from a past negative experience (where I was the buyer & in the right), I don't trust PP will actually help me out this time either. G

i have posted some advice on a similar matter on a separate thread. Basically if you sold the goods by auction you are not obliged to refund, and due to the time elapsed are not obliged to accept it back as faulty.

distance selling regs state that auctions, including online auctions are exempt and not covered by the regulations, so you can state refunds not accepted and consider all sales final. Also, even where distance selling regs do apply you are only obliged to allow 7 days for inspection and any fault to be reported from the date the buyer receives the item.

if there was no limit on when a buyer could report an item and request a refund, when would we know when to consider the sale final and the money ours to spend?

if you wish to appeal to paypal against the refund you may like to read this post i made in a separate thread...remember this only applies if you auctioned the item, if it was a buy it now you must send a separate appeal relating to distance selling regulations only.........

.......The only way to fight it is to demand that paypal do not give any of your money to a customer without your authority as it would be in breach of your legal right to not accept refunds on auctioned and/or private sale goods.

Make it clear at the top of your email and letter to them that YOU DO NOT authorise them to refund the customer.

Send an email to them and a letter to their surrey address recorded. Remind paypal that the money in the account legally belongs to you and paypal do not have the legal Authority to decide that it does not, and if it is given to a third party without your authority you will respond with an immediate legal claim to recover the money from paypal via the county court plus costs and interest.
Remind them also that if it is their belief that their terms and conditions allow them to seize and distribute your funds at their discretion, you would remind them that this breaches your legal right not to accept refunds and any contract term that contradicts uk law or restricts your legal right is likely to constitute a breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts act 1999.


Sounds complex but amounts to an email and a letter, it may work and paypal will refund the buyer themselves or refuse the refund. I have only ever done something similar were paypal reversed a payment from a buyer at random, apparently for no reason but were refusing to accept responsibility telling me i must seek the return of the money from the buyer, i persevered in insisting that they had no legal right to do what they did and the buyer was not responsible (despite also not being honest enough to re-pay) and if they did not return my money i would issue a legal claim against them, they gave me my money as a "gesture of goodwill".............

Also if you need to ring paypal again you may wish to use this number so that you don’t have to pay 0870 rates for the call.... 020 86053000 this is their number to their surrey office but if you press one when the options are read out you will be diverted to the Dublin call centre but at 02 number rates.



Here is a link to the distance selling regulations so that you can see what it says about the time you must allow for returns/faults to be reported (cancellation periods) and what it says about exemptions (exceptions to the regulations)....... http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/


Amd a link to Ministry of justice issued guidence notes on what may consitute a breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts act 1999...... http://www.claimsregulation.gov.uk/userfiles/file/Unfair%20Contract%20Terms%20Guidance%20for%20consumers.pdf


Best of luck

Rebel

One point that has not been mentioned (and in this case due to the amount of money involved may not be relevant) remember that Ebay/Paypal may decline to accept your business in the future should you follow the legal route whether you were to win or lose.

You have no legal rights to insist Ebay/Paypal accept your future business so whatever the outcome they MIGHT decide to close your account.

cyril82

Rebel wrote: »

One point that has not been mentioned (and in this case due to the amount of money involved may not be relevant) remember that Ebay/Paypal may decline to accept your business in the future should you follow the legal route whether you were to win or lose.

You have no legal rights to insist Ebay/Paypal accept your future business so whatever the outcome they MIGHT decide to close your account.

possible i suppose, but i have challenged paypal on legal grounds many times, between 5 and 10 over the years, never have they wanted to go to court i always won my case (usually because i was demanding account freezes be removed and they have no real right to enforce them) and to this day i hold a paypal and ebay account. Plus if they ban you there are simple, legal ways to open a new account that include full disclosure of who you are and absolutely no dishonesty.

So i wouldn't worry, but a valid point to raise.

GoofyGAT

Thanks again guys, especially cyril82

Only just returning to this thread since my last post on 1/06 (I thought I was subscribed to receive instant notifications for any replies, but mistakenly did it for another thread).

Hmm, I had no idea that PP could refund anyway, even without my consent.

Anyway, I've stated my case in no uncertain terms couple of days ago, that I would be unwilling to refund under any circumstances because the buyer initially expressed satisfaction with the item, the time factor involved, the item being secondhand & its delicate nature in the wrong hands, my past flawless record & how seriously I have taken my buyer/seller responsibilities over 6-7 years. The evidence is in my past items for sale, the feedback I have been left & have left for others.

Will let you know how it goes. G