HELP! Partner moving in..

AsknAnswer

I'd like to see the legislation on that. I've looked all through the law volumes and I can't find anything other than partner working away from home.

alwaysonthego_2

AsknAnswer wrote: »

I'd like to see the legislation on that. I've looked all through the law volumes and I can't find anything other than partner working away from home.

As I have said before try the CPAG benefits and tax credits manual or see the link that I previously posted.

http://www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/m...2?OpenDocument

AsknAnswer

That's not legislation, it's opinions drawn from people based on what they have seen. Which regulations refer to this? Which statute? Or which chapter of the DMG refers to it, as I cannot find it after a throurgh search of the blue volumes.

I don't trust any internet site which profuses to help benefit claimants by charging a fee for information on legislation when the legislation is free and widely available.

alwaysonthego_2

AsknAnswer wrote: »

That's not legislation, it's opinions drawn from people based on what they have seen. Which regulations refer to this? Or which chapter of the DMG refers to it, as I cannot find it.

I don't trust any internet site which profuses to help benefit claimants by charging a fee for information on legislation when the legislation is free and widely available.

I never said it was legislation, it is guidelines produced by a Local government.

The CPAG manual can be found at your local CAB so I don't know why you say it can not be trusted. I never meant for someone to buy it, I posted the link so that the op could see what I was talking about. Obviously the CPAG site is aimed at professional advising agencies not the general public and it has to make money somehow for doing it. The CPAG manual has specialist info that is used by professional adviser and it their bible.

If you really do not believe what I am saying go to your local CAB as you admit you can not find the relevant policies.

alwaysonthego_2

I have just looked at the DMG

What it says is The term living together as husband and wife is not defined in legislation. It is for decision makers to determine whether the whole relationship, of two people who are neither married to each other nor each others civil partner, is that of a couple who are living together as husband and wife1

11045 All factors of their relationship have to be considered. The significance of each factor can only be determined in the context of all of the factors with none being decisive. There is more to the determination than the cold, observable facts. The characteristics of the relationship of husband and wife may include1

1. mutual love

2. faithfulness

3. public acknowledgement

4. sexual relations

5. shared surname

6. children

7. endurance

8. stability

9. interdependence

10. devotion.

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:5vE68y8EWpUJ:www.dsdni.gov.uk/dmser_chapter11-2.doc+DMG+couples+living+separately+to+claim+benefits&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk

So as I have said it is up to the DM to decide. Obviously you was not looking in the correct place for the legislation or you do not understand it. You need to comprehend that the benefits system is not black and white and is very complex.

AsknAnswer

The CAB do not write the legislation on benefits, or the policies. What they "say" in a handbook is not relevant unless what they say can be backed up by legislation, or at least refers to the legislation by name so the client can look it up.

I have looked at the legislation produced by the government in relation to benefit as well as the DMG and cannot find anything in it which implies that if a claimant is not living with a partner within the same household that the claim must be joint, except in circumstances where one of the partners lives away from home for work reasons such as forces, offshore etc. For some claims, a person is accepted as having a partner if one of them permanently resides within a Care establishment or hospital providing they were residing within the same household as a couple immediately prior to going into care.

I'm not trying to be horrid or discredit you, I have asked you for legislation, which you can't produce to counter act what I believe to be true. I have looked at the relevant legislation and can't find anything to back up what you have said, and combined with what is written within the benefit forms (JSA1) as guidance to claimants it would appear that what you have said is incorrect, they should not claim as a couple as the claim criteria in regard to partners in the notes booklet and the claim form states "By partner we mean a person you are married to or a person you are living with as if you are married to them". I've also spoken to a benefit delivery officer from Jobcentreplus (25 years experience) today whom has advised me of the same. Of course if they believe someone is fradulently claiming as a single person to obtain benefit payments by deception then yes they look at the wider picture but the general rule is that unless you are married, living with someone as if you are married to them, or your spouse/partner lives outwith the home due to circumstances of employment then a single person claim should be submitted.

Therefore I would encourage the OP's boyfriend not to submit a joint claim, but to submit a single claim, but to also mention within his claim for benefit, his relationship. That way it has been declared. I'm sure he'll be told that the OP will be discounted from the claim as they are not considered partners for benefit purposes at this time.

I think they would be more suspicious if the OP was claiming benefit as a lone parent, as generally speaking she has the "household" expenses as she maintains her own household. Her boyfriend lives with his mother, therefore if he is claiming he is unlikely to receive added benefits of JSA (IB) such as housing benefit or council tax benefit.

Edited to add: I understand the benefits system, thank you. It certainly is not black and white but at the moment the OP's other half should claim as a single person. Based on their circumstances, yes of course the DM could decide they are a "couple", however if the DM did so, and the OP's boyfriend appealed the decision, the tribunals service would almost certainly overturn the decision, if it wasn't overturned at the stage of internal reconsideration first. An internal reconsideration must be performed before a case is sent to the Tribunals Service.

Also, that DMG is relevant to Northern Ireland only.

NASA_2

There are some situations where you can be classed as living together even if living in diffrent houses but I dont see that this would be the case if the OP and her partner remain in different households.

NASA_2

AsknAnswer wrote: »

Also, that DMG is relevant to Northern Ireland only.

NI has parity legislation and guidance with GB.

alwaysonthego_2

AsknAnswer wrote: »

The CAB do not write the legislation on benefits, or the policies. What they "say" in a handbook is not relevant unless what they say can be backed up by legislation, or at least refers to the legislation by name so the client can look it up. Where did I say that the CAB wrote legislation? It is CPAG that stands for Child Poverty Action Group and have nothing to do with the CAB. CPAG is used by professional advisers, solicitors and some benefit workers use it.

I have looked at the legislation produced by the government in relation to benefit as well as the DMG and cannot find anything in it which implies that if a claimant is not living with a partner within the same household that the claim must be joint, except in circumstances where one of the partners lives away from home for work reasons such as forces, offshore etc. For some claims, a person is accepted as having a partner if one of them permanently resides within a Care establishment or hospital providing they were residing within the same household as a couple immediately prior to going into care.The legislation that I quoted in my above post from the DMG states that there is no legislation to define what a relationship is as it can mean different things. A married couple who are together could live seperately and claim benefits as single people.

I'm not trying to be horrid or discredit you, I have asked you for legislation, which you can't produce to counter act what I believe to be true. I have looked at the relevant legislation and can't find anything to back up what you have said, see my above post and combined with what is written within the benefit forms (JSA1) as guidance to claimants it would appear that what you have said is incorrect,it is not black and white they should not claim as a couple as the claim criteria in regard to partners in the notes booklet and the claim form states "By partner we mean a person you are married to or a person you are living with as if you are married to them". I've also spoken to a benefit delivery officer from Jobcentreplus (25 years experience) today whom has advised me of the same.did you get it in writing just incase Of course if they believe someone is fradulently claiming as a single person to obtain benefit payments by deception then yes they look at the wider picture but the general rule is that unless you are married, living with someone as if you are married to them, or your spouse/partner lives outwith the home due to circumstances of employment then a single person claim should be submitted.

Therefore I would encourage the OP's boyfriend not to submit a joint claim, but to submit a single claim, but to also mention within his claim for benefit, his relationship. That way it has been declared. I'm sure he'll be told that the OP will be discounted from the claim as they are not considered partners for benefit purposes at this time. I would suggest they consult with the DWP and get what they say in writing to cover themselves

I think they would be more suspicious if the OP was claiming benefit as a lone parent, as generally speaking she has the "household" expenses as she maintains her own household. Her boyfriend lives with his mother, therefore if he is claiming he is unlikely to receive added benefits of JSA (IB) such as housing benefit or council tax benefit.
My answers are in red!

AsknAnswer

The CAB do not write the legislation on benefits, or the policies. What they "say" in a handbook is not relevant unless what they say can be backed up by legislation, or at least refers to the legislation by name so the client can look it up. Where did I say that the CAB wrote legislation? It is CPAG that stands for Child Poverty Action Group and have nothing to do with the CAB. CPAG is used by professional advisers, solicitors and some benefit workers use it.

CAB or CPAG....my thoughts are the same....the legislation on benefit is not written by either of them. Benefits Workers as in benefits advisors NOT employed within DWP

Again, read the DMG. Read it properly.

To be classified as a couple they must be LTAHAW.

11001 “Couple” means1
1. a man and a woman who are married to each other and are members of the
same household
2. a man and a woman who are not married to each other but are LTAHAW
3. two people of the same sex who are civil partners of each other and are
members of the same household or
4. two people of the same sex who are not civil partners of each other but are
LTACP.

To be classified as LTAHAW they must be members of the same household.

then look up what the DMG says about Members of the same household:

11015 Two people who are neither married to each other nor a civil partner of each other
must be members of the same household if they are to be treated as LTAHAW or
LTACP and thus a couple.
11016 Household is not defined in legislation. It should be given its normal everyday
meaning. It is a domestic establishment containing the essentials of home life.
Household and home are not the same1. Household may refer to people held
together by a particular kind of tie, even if temporarily separated2.
1 R(SB) 4/83; 2 Santos v Santos [1972] All ER 246
11017 To be members of the same household means that
1. they live in the same flat, apartment, caravan or other dwelling place and
neither normally lives in another household and
2. they both live there regularly, apart from absences necessary for employment,
to visit relatives, etc.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/dwp/dmg/pdf/ch11.pdf

It is apparent that given the OP's set of circumstances, her boyfriend is perfectly entitled to claim as a single person, and they would not be classed as a couple for benefits purposes with their current circumstances.

Yes, people who don't always share a household can be considered as a couple, but not in this case.