Kicked off A4e and then wrestled out of job center.

wishface

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

But wishface, if JC employees are not allowed to help with forms, 'refusing to take no for an answer' is not going to do anything other than inflame an already unhappy situation.

It's still not going to get their form filled in, is it?

I understand the person's distress, but she would have been better going somewhere where they COULD help her to fill it in.

There are very few places that can help. Only the CAB who are horrendously oversubscribed. Expecting the JC to help is entirely reasonable and quite logical.

That they apparently (if true) can't, isn't.

I have no sympathy for jobsworths.

willa

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You keep using phrases like "this treatment" as if somebody's been abused and insulted. The situation as described on here was

"the JobCentre refused to help, and she was escorted off the building for refusing to take no for an answer as they said they apparently didn't have anyone experienced enough to help her."

which sounds to me like an unfortunate situation but not something to either make a complaint about later or a fuss about at the time.

If you go into the bank and they haven't got somebody suitably trained to help you with a loan application then surely you don't "refuse to take no for an answer", need to be escorted off the premises or even put in a formal complaint afterwards - and that's with an organisation where you really are a customer! You huff a bit and make an appointment when somebody suitable's available, don't you?

Ah, interesting. ONW admits that benefits claimants are not really customers. Why do the DWP and its staff insist on calling us 'customers' then (while obviously thinking we are not customers)?

sharski

Here we go again!!!
JC staff are now 'jobsworths' for doing what they are supposed to do!!

wishface - I would love to know what you (used to) do for a living..... then I can rip you apart & tell you how crap you are....

Oldernotwiser

willa wrote: »

Ah, interesting. ONW admits that benefits claimants are not really customers. Why do the DWP and its staff insist on calling us 'customers' then (while obviously thinking we are not customers)?

It's not a question of "admitting" anything - of course clients aren't customers but neither are HE students. It's the prevailing culture to use this terminology and I'm sure most JCP employees dislike it quite as much as FE/HE lecturers do .

vegankris

wishface wrote: »

I have no sympathy for jobsworths.

I do have a lot of sympathy for people who are in jobs where they have to implement stupid rules that shouldn't exist, as I work in retail myself and I've been in them. However, there's certainly different ways of doing that, you can be apologetic about it to your customer, or rude about it.

WhatFrickingUsernameIsnt

nexuss wrote: »

From your wording you sound a very confrontational person when there is no need.

Let me explain, all Job Centres have security staff, but this one has "bouncers".

They stand at the door, you are not allowed to enter until you speak to them, they send you to the downstairs reception even when you know you are expected upstairs. (You have to line up only to be told to go upstairs!) Everyone refers to them as "the bouncers" because they act like it. I've often worried I'm not wearing the correct shoes to sign on

As for "big man", this is a common term in Scotland for someone who acts the hard man, which he was.

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

If you go into the bank and they haven't got somebody suitably trained to help you with a loan application then surely you don't "refuse to take no for an answer", need to be escorted off the premises or even put in a formal complaint afterwards - and that's with an organisation where you really are a customer! You huff a bit and make an appointment when somebody suitable's available, don't you?

No, I would leave the bank quite happily and go to one which did want my custom. Unfortunately you can't do that with Job Center Plus... or they would be out of business by now!

In addition, I don't know who it was that suggested that JC staff cant fill in forms, but they do it all the time, as someone said already there is a box on the form you tick if they do.

Oldernotwiser

WhatFrickingUsernameIsnt wrote: »

No, I would leave the bank quite happily and go to one which did want my custom. Unfortunately you can't do that with Job Center Plus... or they would be out of business by now!

In addition, I don't know who it was that suggested that JC staff cant fill in forms, but they do it all the time, as someone said already there is a box on the form you tick if they do.

The forms in question may well be fairly specific; if the claimant didn't get the loan because they weren't correctly completed they would perhaps have some comeback on any untrained staff that helped.

I take your point about having a choice of banks but I doubt that many people would need to be shown the door even if there wasn't a choice!

seven-day-weekend

Many of the Welfare Rights Charities will also help with filling in forms.

I can see why JC staff are not allowed to. What if they filled it in wrong (because they were untrained/did not have all the details/just made a human error) and the person lost Benefit over it?

The box where it says to tick if someone had filled it in for you may equally include a family member filling it in for people who are unable to do so themselves. I filled a Housing Benefit form in for a friend once and ticked that box. It's not for JC employees.

balajo

Hey What Freaking ....
I am very sorry to hear about the treatment you received at the Job Centre. I used them twice and I found them useless. And I hate when people get high and mighty and/or make no sense about what they are demanding. I don't understand most organisations and how they operate and or how the people working in them sleep at night. How frustrating to try to avoid nonsense upfront to be put off again. The lack of accountability in these situation is appalling. Well I hope things have improved for you. I live in a world where most of my time is following up others and fixing their mistakes that negatively impact me and your scenario just made me experience deja vu. I could see that happening to me.
Glad in this case, I am not alone but feel bad for you.
Keep your chin up
B

wishface

sharski wrote: »

Here we go again!!!
JC staff are now 'jobsworths' for doing what they are supposed to do!!

wishface - I would love to know what you (used to) do for a living..... then I can rip you apart & tell you how crap you are....

here we go again... people misrepresenting what was actually said because they can't actually read what was written as written.

If you can't spare a couple of minutes to help someone, and spare me this nonsense about not being allowed to help other people fill forms in, then you don't deserve much respect or sympathy for your position. Never mind manhandling people out the door - not even offering an alternative. That's pathetic.

it must be so nice to enjoy such moral convenience from the other side of the fence. Woe betide you having to sit on the other side of the desk.