Kicked off A4e and then wrestled out of job center.

WhatFrickingUsernameIsnt

I like many unemployed was on a government "training course" called A4e (I'll save the corruption for another thread) and was ill with a bad cold / mild flu. This caused me to be dismissed from the course as the rules stated you would be dismissed if you where off for over 5 days. No big deal, this was last Tuesday.

I called the job center I was attending right after to explain the situation and arrange to sign on again. I was told I would be phoned back, I never was. I called twice on the Wednesday and was told the same, they never phoned back. On Thursday I called up and demanded I be delt with there and then since they had never called me back.

They put me through to my advisor who told me to come in and speak to someone (I can't recall the name) and told me I had to do it within 6 days of the course dismissing me. At this point I informed them that I did not have the money to attend twice, so I did not want to come in only to be asked to come back later (as I get that all the time!)

Yesterday I hopped on the bus, put my last £1.20 in the machine and went to the job center. When I got there I was made to wait at the table for around 20 minuets, while waiting I was taking sips of my water every few minuets as I still have a sore throat. The "bouncer" noticed me doing this at one point and then snapped at me that I was not allowed to drink in the job center.

Since he was acting the big man, and was taking his bad day out on me for no reason, I decided to question him on this "rule". He was clearly getting wound up at the fact he could not give a good reason for it. Eventually he walked off and stopped responding.

I was then informed by a staff member that I was to "take away this booklet and come back on Wednesday". I explained that I did not have the money to return on Wednesday, and that I was already facing an 8km hike home. He said "that is all we can do". I said that this was not good enough, as I had explained on the phone that I had no money to return. He went off and after a minute or so returned saying I was "supposed to attend on Friday", which is nonsense or I would have attended.

The staff member was not in the slightest sympathetic and refused to answer my questions with a reasonable answer. After a minute or so he asked the "big man" to kick me out... he called on two of his buddies and said I was to leave or be forcefully removed. I refused. They wrestled me down the stairs and out the door. I offered no resistance other than my initial refusal to leave.

I immediately went to the Parliament (Holyrood) to speak to my MSP, and I was given his number, I am waiting for him to call back. His secretary seemed quite shocked at my experience.

I had previously attended at different job center because when I made my initial claims at this one they kept messing up appointments, messing me about, and I disliked the heavy handed approach of the security. They send me back to this one after a month or two because apparently it was costing them money, but I intend now to return to my original job center even though it is an extra half hour away.

It really is sick how the unemployed are treated, and the A4e "training course" is just 8 hours a day of torture, they teach us nothing, we sit and twiddle or thumbs and taxpayers hard earned cash gets shoved into the pockets of Broons buddies! :mad:

Rants over, comments welcome.

KILL_BILL

there is a complaints procedure that the job centre has to follow

ring up and speak to the manager of the job centre that you went to stating that you will go to the police relating to the assault that you got off the security staff

dmg24

If you were willing to leave of your own accord, why did they have to 'wrestle' you down the stairs?

Your attitude comes across as very confrontational. Perhaps it was your own actions that made the situation become so difficult?

-BA-

I will in part agree with DMG here but also recognise that events leading up to your lapse in behaviour were a partial cause. Nonetheless I am afraid it is no excuse for disruptive behaviour that served to benefit noone, especially yourself. How you were treated by not receiving phone calls back was wrong, how you were treated by being forced to go in was not ideal but perhaps necessary. How you were spoken to by the security staff was perhaps a little gruff but doesn't seem to have warranted your response. The same goes sadly for your response when asked to leave. It strikes me it was you having the bad day and your curt attitude was not well received. Sadly jobcentreplus staff are extremely stretched at the moment and should not have to go to work each day to be abused.

You might also like to bear in mind that many, many of us working folk actually go to work with bad colds and flu and soldier on. Perhaps looking on yourself as a jobseeker and less of an unemployed person might give you a greater degree of purpose?

WhatFrickingUsernameIsnt

"If you were willing to leave of your own accord, why did they have to 'wrestle' you down the stairs?"

I was not willing to leave, but I was not resisting them chucking me out. I was quite happy to wait for some answers.

"Nonetheless I am afraid it is no excuse for disruptive behaviour that served to benefit noone, especially yourself."

I don't consider sitting at a table and asking questions about why my time and money had been wasted disruptive.

It strikes me it was you having the bad day

My day was going just fine untill I was snapped at for taking a drink of water.

"How you were spoken to by the security staff was perhaps a little gruff but doesn't seem to have warranted your response." ... "and should not have to go to work each day to be abused."

My response was simply to ask why someone with a sore throat was not allowed to drink water. If he is going to fob me off with nonsense like "you have to take into consideration everyone else" when I was sitting at a desk in the corner of the room drinking from a plastic bottle minding my own business then he should expect me to ask him to explain his logic. They even compared it to smoking, which I'm sure you'll agree is nonsense.

"You might also like to bear in mind that many, many of us working folk actually go to work with bad colds and flu and soldier on. Perhaps looking on yourself as a jobseeker and less of an unemployed person might give you a greater degree of purpose?"

Thanks for the patronising kick in the face. I had perfect attendance at both of the training courses I was sent to up untill my flu. The first training course was two weeks long and was useful, the more recent one is a waste of time and taxes. In addition I spent five years and got into £15,000 of debt gaining a number of qualifications in IT including a degree. So please refrain from judging me as a Burberry wearing buckfast addict when all you know of me is a single post on an internet forum.

It must be nice for you being in work and having experience, especially during a recession. Its not quite as easy for us right now when hundreds of people are applying for every minor position.

I'd be quite happy to take any job, with very few exceptions. Unfortunately I have just never been offered one in the last six months.

dmg24

If you refuse to leave a private building when asked, you are potentially committing trespass. A nominated person has the right to use reasonable force to eject you to leave the building.

Can you not see how you were at fault here?

NASA_2

I'm not sure who I resented dealing with the most. The neds or the 'Professionals' who thought they were better than everyone else in the office.

The neds had the lack of an education to 'excuse' their annoyingness.

pol747

I have to agree with the original poster on this point as one of the long term unemployed who has just finished a similar course (didnt learn anything!). While on the course we were treated like scum by some of the so called trainers simply because we are unemployed. This also applies to jobcentre staff, yes they are pressured by the amount of work they have to do but they are there to help us, regardless of how much of a crap day they are having. I have experienced it for myself and seen others get the same treatment as above. They have the upper hand by threatening to stop your benefits and when you get minimum benefits its a big threat so you are forced to bite your lip and toe the line.
As for the employed - unemployed argument i find that people in work have set ideas about the unemployed, just remember that you could one day be in the same position and having to suffer the hardship of signing on and claiming benefits.

WhatFrickingUsernameIsnt

dmg24 wrote: »

If you refuse to leave a private building when asked, you are potentially committing trespass. A nominated person has the right to use reasonable force to eject you to leave the building.

There are no trespass laws in Scotland.

I think people are missing my point, I am not complaining specifically about being forcefully removed, I could have left by myself if I had wanted to. I am complaining about the system as a whole.

Why are we being sent to "training courses" and being forced to sit around for 8 hours with nouthing to do. I can't look for a job when I'm being incarcerated. It costs the tax payer £220 per person, per week, plus attendees get an additional £15 ontop of JSA plus bus fares - £6.

That is you the tax payer paying out about £250 extra a week for me and the rest to sit on a chair and do nothing, and it is incredibly frustrating for those of us who are forced to do it.

Why am I being messed about on the phone, why am I being messed about with "appointments" to make appointments. Wasting yet again my time and limited money. Why is the fact I am ill completely irrelevant to them?

Why am I not deserving of a straight answer? Why are they allowed to fob me off with silly excuses which don't make any sense? Why do they think they can lie to my face and expect me to be happy about it?

The whole system is a joke.

ESA wrote: »

I'm not sure who I resented dealing with the most. The neds or the 'Professionals' who thought they were better than everyone else in the office.

By the fact I have never held a "professional" job, I can by no means be classed as a "professional". If I where a professional why on earth would I be in a job center in the first place?

pol747 wrote: »

This also applies to jobcentre staff, yes they are pressured by the amount of work they have to do but they are there to help us, regardless of how much of a crap day they are having.

I agree, they are flooded right now, and to be fair so are the staff on the training course. My current new deal advisor has by far been the best DWP person I have delt with. I have had previous advisors who only wanted to get you signed and out the door. Though I will not be keeping my claim at this job center any longer.

Infidel

Surely if there were no unemployed people, all the job centre staff would be, er,.....unemployed.:rolleyes:

wishface

dmg24 wrote: »

If you were willing to leave of your own accord, why did they have to 'wrestle' you down the stairs?

Your attitude comes across as very confrontational. Perhaps it was your own actions that made the situation become so difficult?

Your skills as a pyschologist and a behavioural expert are clearly wasted on this forum. Shouldn't you be helping the police solve crimes with such a level of analytical prowess?

Or are you another arrogant armchair pundit?