School Uniform !

Loopy_Girl

poet123 wrote: »

Surely most parents use some common sense (like you did) and buy from the school outfitters only those items with the school logo on which cannot be bought elsewhere? Plain items such as shirts, blouses, trousers etc can be bought wherever you choose, thus reducing the overall cost.

Exactly. I have bought the sweatshirts, fleecy coat and the waterproof coat with the logo on it. Everything else has been from Sainsburys (best polo shirts ever imo!);)

And the last time I had to fork out was 2 years ago for the logo stuff.

AsknAnswer

Loopy_Girl wrote: »

I know they don't. That's why I am asking if the OP consented to it since she gave such a great speech about dental care. Am assuming that she knows best and so therefore felt no need to participate in the programme

I'm afraid you assumed wrong. I am happy for my daughter to have the applications. I am just not happy for her data to be shared with all and sundry, neither was I happy when I was questioned about why I didn't want the data shared. I am not answerable to that. I am her parent and I choose not to have her data shared, I am not obliged to give a reason. I was also unhappy about the school having very obviously given a private number which is to be used in an emergency only to a person who I had not consented to having that number. She has a dentist for the purposes of diagnostics.

Again, fresh squeezed juice is one of her five a day. I am aware it has a higher acid consent, it's once a day and it is good for her nutrition. It is promoted as one of the five portions of fruit a day. Unless of course nutritionalists are wrong.

And again, I don't have a choice in which school my child attends. She either attends that one or she doesn't attend full stop and I home educate.

edited to add: regarding do I do this at work? Yes, I do. If I think anything is unreasonable, immoral or unlawful then yes I will question it. As a matter of fact, it was questioning these things that got me promoted, my boss liked the fact that I don't take things lying down.

PolishBigSpender

poet123 wrote: »

There is a difference between questioning, and being difficult for the sake of it. If you accept the offer of a place at a decent school, you ought to accept the uniform requirements that go along with it. The wearing of a logo may not seem a big deal, in reality it is one of several things which underpin good standards, reinforce school identity and foster community spirit.

Of course, good schools would never dream of using expensive school uniforms to keep out 'undesirable' children with parents on benefits, would they? I'm certain that the example at the start of this thread is one among many - it seems an all too easy way to ensure that you only get 'better' children in the absence of any formal testing regime at 11.

All, if not most, of the highest achieving schools in the country have strict uniform policies, that is not a co incidence. I would far rather my child went to a school where uniform standards and educational standards were upheld, than one where uniform/discipline was lax. The two issues are intertwined.

So why do many high performing schools throughout the world have no uniform? In fact, I believe Summerhill School has no uniform - yet it's regarded as providing an education that far surpasses anything available in the State sector. Then you have all the Steiner schools throughout the world - which are again regarded as being success stories, despite having a very relaxed ethos.

The fact that children at a strict school might achieve high educational standards in terms of tests means absolutely nothing - haven't you seen the products of many of these schools? I think most people would agree that a poorer-performing school that brought up children to be well adjusted and ready for life is far better than a school that churns out A grade idiots.

School uniform is almost non-existent in Poland. Yet our children are growing up to obtain a Masters qualification as almost standard - which is superior to the UK. Our children study a far wider range of subjects to far later, and the workload is arguably more intensive due to the smaller contact hours.

Tell me, why, despite the UK's obsession with uniform standards (just HOW much time is wasted in checking uniforms, I wonder?) - Brits have such a dreadful reputation throughout the world for being complete idiots?

It is about priorities, and often those who spout about the cost of uniform (which is cheaper now than ever before) do not have education as a priority

I passionately believe in education. But the UK's obsession with petty, insigificant issues (YOUR TIE ISN"T EXACTLY TEN INCHES BELOW YOUR NECK AND YOUR TROUSERS DON'T HAVE A TINY LOGO IN THE POCKET - DETENTION!) significantly undermines education. You cannot convince me that time spent picking at uniforms is time well spent - in fact, I'd argue that any teacher that had the time to do so simply wasn't teaching properly.

We don't have uniforms here. We also don't have teenagers high on drugs constantly, we don't have teenage drunkeness in parks, we don't have teenage girls dressing like prostitutes and we don't have huge problems with teenage mothers.

Your so called 'free thinking' would do well to look at schools that succeed without needing to enforce draconian Victorian uniform practices.

The person that made the original post is clearly struggling day to day. Shouldn't her daughter at least have the chance to better her mother/father and make something of herself? Condemning bright children to bad schools just because the parents can't afford the uniform seems to be absolutely terrible to me. I'm no great social justice campaigner, but in this case, it makes me sick.

Oldernotwiser

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

So why do many high performing schools throughout the world have no uniform? In fact, I believe Summerhill School has no uniform - yet it's regarded as providing an education that far surpasses anything available in the State sector.

Summerhill School was a brave experiment in its time but "surpassing anything in the state sector"? You must be joking!

Oldernotwiser

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

The fact that children at a strict school might achieve high educational standards in terms of tests means absolutely nothing - haven't you seen the products of many of these schools? I think most people would agree that a poorer-performing school that brought up children to be well adjusted and ready for life is far better than a school that churns out A grade idiots.
.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that, as a foreigner, you know about as much about education in the UK as we do about Poland, but this level of ignorance amazes me.

I've not only seen the "products" of one of those high achieving schools but I actually was one! We had ideas, creativity, interest, excitement and ideals, not just A grades. Not the sort of thing you find much of in a low performing comp.

The British education used to be the envy of the world until it went down the road of producing "well adjusted" children, who unfortunately couldn't read, write or do basic arithmetic. I doubt that many concerned and intelligent parents would want their children educated at low achieving schools, however well adjusted they might be, in fact the drugs and teenage pregnancies are a direct result of this attitude in education.

poet123

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

Of course, good schools would never dream of using expensive school uniforms to keep out 'undesirable' children with parents on benefits, would they? I'm certain that the example at the start of this thread is one among many - it seems an all too easy way to ensure that you only get 'better' children in the absence of any formal testing regime at 11.

So why do many high performing schools throughout the world have no uniform? In fact, I believe Summerhill School has no uniform - yet it's regarded as providing an education that far surpasses anything available in the State sector. Then you have all the Steiner schools throughout the world - which are again regarded as being success stories, despite having a very relaxed ethos.

The fact that children at a strict school might achieve high educational standards in terms of tests means absolutely nothing - haven't you seen the products of many of these schools? I think most people would agree that a poorer-performing school that brought up children to be well adjusted and ready for life is far better than a school that churns out A grade idiots.

School uniform is almost non-existent in Poland. Yet our children are growing up to obtain a Masters qualification as almost standard - which is superior to the UK. Our children study a far wider range of subjects to far later, and the workload is arguably more intensive due to the smaller contact hours.

Tell me, why, despite the UK's obsession with uniform standards (just HOW much time is wasted in checking uniforms, I wonder?) - Brits have such a dreadful reputation throughout the world for being complete idiots?

I passionately believe in education. But the UK's obsession with petty, insigificant issues (YOUR TIE ISN"T EXACTLY TEN INCHES BELOW YOUR NECK AND YOUR TROUSERS DON'T HAVE A TINY LOGO IN THE POCKET - DETENTION!) significantly undermines education. You cannot convince me that time spent picking at uniforms is time well spent - in fact, I'd argue that any teacher that had the time to do so simply wasn't teaching properly.

We don't have uniforms here. We also don't have teenagers high on drugs constantly, we don't have teenage drunkeness in parks, we don't have teenage girls dressing like prostitutes and we don't have huge problems with teenage mothers.

Your so called 'free thinking' would do well to look at schools that succeed without needing to enforce draconian Victorian uniform practices.

The person that made the original post is clearly struggling day to day. Shouldn't her daughter at least have the chance to better her mother/father and make something of herself? Condemning bright children to bad schools just because the parents can't afford the uniform seems to be absolutely terrible to me. I'm no great social justice campaigner, but in this case, it makes me sick.

Utter rubbish, clearly posted by someone with no grasp of the issues that face UK educators today. Similarly, if you bother to read the posts re the OP you would see that she elicited sympathy, whilst those who rebel simply because they can, did not.

I would not dream of commenting on the Polish educational system, because I know little about it. You do not seem to suffer the same constraints, yet you evidence little knowledge.......

Brits have such a dreadful reputation throughout the world for being complete idiots?

Really? that will be why there was an influx from Poland and other East European countries to the UK then? As far as I am concerned Brits (educationally speaking, and leaving aside the lager lout minority which come from schools with low standards and are a result of poor parenting)) have a good reputation and are sought after by other countries.

Have you heard of the Brain Drain?

Poland is not exactly famous for producing ground breaking world leaders, in any sphere.

Many of our kids attain Masters Degrees, two of my sons have them, as do I, and my husband. So, it is not too far from the norm for many in the UK. Nor are those who achieve academically necessarily ill adjusted, as you seem to suggest in one paragraph, and then go on to contradict when referring to the Masters achievements of Polish students.

It is perfectly possible to achieve academically and be a well adjusted individual, I know, I have done it,my kids have done it, their friends have done it, seems ONW has done it. Have you?

Fat_Fairy

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Less than £100 for 5 items of clothing doesn't sound particularly expensive to me, particularly when two of the items are jackets. Children have to wear clothes, wherever they are!

I do think that buying two sizes of blazer at the same time is making life unneccessarily difficult for yourself though.

exactly what i thought!

my son goes up to academy in August and i have budgeted £100 for his school stuff, even though he only has to have school jumper and rugby shirt. He'll have some new trousers and shoes/trainers so i'll need the £100, it really doesn't seem that much to me, and i am on a very tight budget.

If you buy the stuff at the last moment possible you still have some time to save up. Just buy the very essential stuff she'll immediately need, then add more as you can.

mumps

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

To be fair, and I don't mean this critically in any way, probably the reason many people choose not to have 4 children is because of expenses like these.

The costs you've listed (I appreciate that this doesn't include things like school shoes) come to £337 which works out at about £4 per child per school week. Is that really such a lot of money for the clothes which they'll be wearing most of the time?

The cost of shoes, football boots, coats, school fund, trips etc would make this closer to £1,500, add music lessons for 2 (which I was paying for at the time) adds another £2,000, then bus fares, school lunches the list goes on. Actually that is low for the year I am talking about because of the number of school trips but would be unfair to include all that. Forgot dancing lessons, music and dancing exams, I keep thinkin of more. How rich would I be if I hadn't had children?

But it is money that can't be spent on more valuable things. The difference between those blouses and standard ones would pay my daughters music lessons for two weeks. I know which I prefer her to have and it isn't five fancy blouses.

As to me having four children I can afford them, one of the advantages of being a teenage mom is that you can have child number 4 when child no 1 has graduated and is independent. There are all sorts of expenses for children which add to their education in the wider sense (not just the 3 Rs) I can't tell you what I have spent on four lots of music lessons, dancing classes, swimming lessons, Brownie, Guides, Cub and Scouts subs. Football, tennis, cricket and rugby kits and training. I could go on but i won't. I repeat I support school uniforms but there should be some common sense about it.

poet123

All of us with multiple children have probably spent a similar amount. It goes with the territory. You just have to decide what your priorities are and budget accordingly.

mumps

poet123 wrote: »

All of us with multiple children have probably spent a similar amount. It goes with the territory. You just have to decide what your priorities are and budget accordingly.

But if schools insist on £36 sweatshirts and £13 blouses that money has to come from somewhere and in my opinion I would prefer to have cheaper uniform and money for the other stuff.