PayPal Negative balance

disposable

Here's the situation i'll try and keep it short.

i sold a phone on ebay, recieved payment through paypal.

the next day i posted the phone, asking the post office worker for proof of posting she underlined on the reciept where it said "It is important that you retain this reciept as it is your proof of posting" and she also wrote the postcode of where i had sent the parcel above
this.

the next day i recieved an e-mail from paypal saying the transaction had been reversed to due to suspect fraud (the buyer paid with stolen card details).

as requested i provided a copy of my proof of postage.
several days later i was informed "case has been closed not in your favour and we have reversed the transaction as it did not pass the Seller Protection eligibility".

I conformed with the requirements of seller protection elegibility as documented in the terms and conditions i agreed to on the website, however paypal have claimed in e-mails to me that "since the post code on the Receipt was handwritten, we are unable to take this into
consideration." this is not mentioned anywhere in the terms and conditions, the relevant part is copied below.

"
11.8 What is “Proof of Postage”?
Online or physical documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:
A status of “shipped” (or equivalent) and the date of postage
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).
Official acceptance from the shipping company (for example, a postmark, a receipt, or online tracking information).
Or, if you have Proof of Delivery then you do not need Proof of Postage.
"

Essentially we have a stalemate, Paypal are refusing to refund me the money they took from me, and i refuse to pay PayPal as i complied with the terms and conditions to which i agreed.

I have since been contacted by Intrum Justitia, a debt collection agency, who are attempting to persue the outstanding balance from me.

can anyone advise me as to how i can challenge paypal to stop persuing me for the debt as i met the terms and conditions that i agreed to when signing up with the company, and they disregarding the contract. Or is there anywhere i could get free legal advice on my situation with regards to my assertation that i am complying with the terms of the contract?
Many thanks for looking.

disposable

DebtHater

It may be useful to know that Intrum have been on Watchdog several times in the past for chasing debts illegally.
First thing I would do is tell Intrum to hold off until Paypal have investigated (the debt agency have to stop chasing the debt whilst the client investigates under the Consumer Credit Act)

Get Paypal to relook at the situation. Its easier said than done, I have stopped using Paypal for the reasons you mentioned in your post.

disposable

thanks for the reply,

unfortunately as i mentioned the situation is at a stalemate, PayPal will not re-investigate, as they claim that a handwritten postcode is not sufficient, the last e-mail i recieved was:

Dear XXXXXXX,

Thank you for your recent email dated 26 April 2009 to the offices of
PayPal.

Mr. XXXXXXX as you were previously advised PayPal cannot accept as proof of
shipping an address where the post code was written in by hand.

Although we deeply regret that you may feel the need to escalate this issue
further, as an ethical company, providing a valuable service, and operating
in accordance with all applicable laws as well as the terms of our User
Agreement, we will gladly respond to any inquiry you may feel the need to
make regarding this matter.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely
Brid
Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company


Thanks for the information on Intrum, i'm not majorly concerned about them at the moment. i'm keen to find out where i can get advice on getting PayPal to conform to the terms of the agreement i signed?

thanks

DebtHater

disposable wrote: »

Thanks for the information on Intrum, i'm not majorly concerned about them at the moment. i'm keen to find out where i can get advice on getting PayPal to conform to the terms of the agreement i signed?

thanks

Nothing you do or say will get them to back down - they have always done it this way and I doubt they are going to change.

The post office now issue POP with a printed post code. You can see their point, you could have wrote the postcode yourself.

Trying_to_be_good

DebtHater wrote: »

The post office now issue POP with a printed post code. You can see their point, you could have wrote the postcode yourself.

I've only had POP with a printed postcode on big items (where you pay the extra insurance), and never if I use a London Post office - they're all hand-written, and they prefer it if you use the old fashioned card receipts where you write in multiple addresses.

disposable

i can see their point, but by the same merit i could send an empty box as recorded delivery and then i'd have "proof of postage" but that means nothing as the box is empty.

The point is, they offer a service, the conditions of which are outlined in the contract i signed. i have complied with the conditions in the contract, and they are refusing to fullfil their part of the agreement.

Surely it is law that they have to abide by the contract in which they entered, where can i get advice on this contract law, and how could i challenge them? is there no agency that they operate under as a financial company that i can report them to?

thanks

DebtHater

disposable wrote: »

i can see their point, but by the same merit i could send an empty box as recorded delivery and then i'd have "proof of postage" but that means nothing as the box is empty.

The point is, they offer a service, the conditions of which are outlined in the contract i signed. i have complied with the conditions in the contract, and they are refusing to fullfil their part of the agreement.

Surely it is law that they have to abide by the contract in which they entered, where can i get advice on this contract law, and how could i challenge them? is there no agency that they operate under as a financial company that i can report them to?

thanks

They operate under the FSA if I remember correctly (Financial Services Authority) as Paypal are classed as a bank and have their own credit card service

EDIT: They are not under our FSA, but a similar authority in Luxembourg:

"PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A is duly licenced as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier, with registered office in L-1150 Luxembourg. Since the service is limited to E-money, which does not qualify as a deposit or an investment service in the sense of the Law, customers of PayPal are not protected by the Luxembourg deposit guarantee schemes provided by the Association pour la Garantie des D!pôts Luxembourg (AGDL)."

hjb123

Did you just get proof of postage or did you send the phone recorded or special delivery?

soolin

DebtHater wrote: »

Nothing you do or say will get them to back down - they have always done it this way and I doubt they are going to change.

The post office now issue POP with a printed post code. You can see their point, you could have wrote the postcode yourself.

You can only get printed COPS for recorded, special or parcel post. I use a multitude of post offices and always get a till receipt type of POP where the clerk writes the details.

I have successfully won a case with a tillr eceipt and handwritten POP with paypal, so I would continute to harrass wthem with this as for a chargeback for fraudulent use of a card they just require proof of posting. You may need to be very persistent though, when I fought my case (to an American buyer) it took me three weeks of continued calls and I also had to instigate a formal complaint against paypal, using their own system, for not using their own policies to support me.

Hailz86

It may help to mention that even proof of posting certificates are written by hand, even when done by the post office worker, so how could anything be used as a proof of posting certificate?? x

disposable

soolin wrote: »

I have successfully won a case with a tillr eceipt and handwritten POP with paypal, so I would continute to harrass wthem with this as for a chargeback for fraudulent use of a card they just require proof of posting. You may need to be very persistent though, when I fought my case (to an American buyer) it took me three weeks of continued calls and I also had to instigate a formal complaint against paypal, using their own system, for not using their own policies to support me.

Hi Soolin, many thanks for that, it's exactly what i wanted to hear, have you got any copies of e-mails you sent them or who you had to call to get the action taken.

so am i right in saying that what worked for you was making a complaint via their internat complaints system, or were there any other measures you took to become successful? FSA, other watchdogs for example?

Thanks for you response!