The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

dopester

Time over, I'd have bought with a big mortgage earlier on, and allowed HPI to float us to asset value wealth. Continued to save just as hard, and then STR'd, even now, for best of both worlds.

Only because if ruling authorities, their tripartite system, low-interest rates forcing money to look for other investments, pension raids..... well you might as well have joined them if everyone insists on doing sick bubble-head unsustainable things in order to rocket home values.

Ideally it would never have happened - never should have happened, and I at least didn't partake in any of it. Way too much money has gone in to unproductive bricks and mortar, taking it to incredible price levels. Now the economy is in a high-altitude stall and falling.

Watching Labour/Brown on tv just now... he has no idea of what to do, and still believes you have to fight all the wrong things. The bust has to play out for any economic recovery to ever come.

Yes STR is a superb opportunity from prices you still might be able to get for your home - imo.

Max_Headroom_3

dopester wrote: »

Only because if ruling authorities, their tripartite system, low-interest rates forcing money to look for other investments, pension raids..... well you might as well have joined them if everyone insists on doing sick bubble-head unsustainable things in order to rocket home values.

Aaaahh, so it'd have been ok for you to have joined in, just not ok for everyone else to.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Ideally it would never have happened - never should have happened, and I at least didn't partake in any of it. Way too much money has gone in to unproductive bricks and mortar, taking it to incredible price levels. Now the economy is in a high-altitude stall and falling.

At least you didn't partake, yet you wished you had?

I see.

Yes STR is a superb opportunity from prices you still might be able to get for your home - imo.

Ah, so it's still a good idea to gamble with your home like an investment even though people who did exactly that on the way up are wrong and culpable in the HPI misery?

(And you're still wrong by the way, it's a gamble, and that is never a good idea with your home. Waaayy too many people equally as convinced as you are have lost tens of thousands of pounds doing exactly that).

dopester

Max_Headroom wrote: »

At least you didn't partake, yet you wished you had?

Maybe.. near 100% mortgage.. ride with the bubble-heads... then STR.

At least I've got a clear conscience, and the coming opportunities for those who have savings/money are going to be incredible - more than going to make up for not riding with the bubble-heads then STR-ing.

Ah, so it's still a good idea to gamble with your home like an investment even though people who did exactly that on the way up are wrong and culpable in the HPI misery?

I have no home, nor agree with your claims of "residential security". Don't see it as a gamble being in savings/cash. It is just perfect.

lostinrates

You know...I thought you two were going to agree to disagree and wish each other well?

mewbie, they'd have to use european parliment ballot slips for any notes they left each other: wouldn't fit on notepaper.

Max_Headroom_3

lostinrates wrote: »

You know...I thought you two were going to agree to disagree and wish each other well?

.

It's my fault, I have issues with gross hypocrisy.

lostinrates

Max_Headroom wrote: »

It's my fault, I have issues with gross hypocrisy.

So do I, I try and I try and yet still I find myself saying one thing, doing another.

ceridwen

dopester wrote: »

When I suggest STR, it is like suggesting you cash your winning lottery jackpot ticket.

Would you really have regretted doing it 12 months ago, going in to even a fancy rented place costing you £9K a year, when average house price has crashed in value by £30K+ over the same time period? Or taken measures to cut your rent further still.

You don't think this crash in values is set to continue?

I know I'm wasting my breath - but I'll point out anyways....yep....I do see your point re house price values crashing...and, in fact, I see them going a good bit lower still actually........so there is a certain logic in sell what one has/rent/buy another place later.......BUT BUT BUT you come smack bang up against this DWP savings rules.

In this case - I think ? that its just 6 months one is allowed to hold onto ones "house" if it has been translated into money in the bank...after that the DWP starts "reaching its hand out for some" and denying you benefits on the grounds that you have "capital" (even though you dont in any real sense - as thats your house money sitting there - NOT savings).

The thing is though - houses arent just money tied up in "bricks and mortar" - they are ones HOME. Unless and until you actually get a HOME dopester you are simply not likely to see where the rest of us are "coming from". To me - my house is two things - its "HOME" and the capital tied up in it. But I couldnt possibly realise that capital without selling it and downsizing (impossible - as I'm pretty much "bottom of the housing ladder" anyway). So - its basically/primarily/darn nearly 100% "HOME"...the one thing in life I can totally rely on and that I would need the emotional security of more than ever should I ever get thrown onto benefits against my will. At least I would be able to wake up every single day and think "At least I have my HOME/my refuge (well inasmuch as a house at the low level I can afford can be a refuge) and THE most important part of my life is carrying on as normal - whatever else happens until I can resolve the money problems....

Maybe one day you will have a "HOME" too and then you will understand what I mean......and why you can just be very grateful Max isnt living on your doorstep....as you keep provoking him with your lack of understanding and empathy......;):D

ceridwen

dopester wrote: »

It doesn't surprise me. The golden-lot who've seen their homes massively rise in value, now seem to fall back on a default position of blaming those who've played the system and single mothers. The wrath is on them.

It is rare they spare a thought for the majority of honest hard-working people from younger generations who are totally priced out... and they rarely consider the values of their homes anything to do with the matter.

And when they do find the young took on crippling mortgages - well that is their own idiotic fault. They are not suffering at all, despite being in negative equity, some with very young children, and now made unemployed.

If I'd been stupid and also took out a mega-mortgage I'd have been one of the people you'd be blaming for the collapse - and tough economic times.

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/276626.aspx

Sorry... you only partially have my sympathy. It is reserved for younger people who are priced out, have tough economic conditions themselves for getting employment, and don't have a home of their own - nor one which has gained so much through HPI.

Dopester - I have EVERY sympathy with the younger generation being priced out of housebuying - as a single person I was in the "how the heck am I ever going to manage to buy my house?:eek:" position that married people just WERENT in in my generation.....so I got to this horrible stage a generation before you did (because of being single and poorly-paid).

It ***** (expletive deleted).

Errrrmmm.....might I suggest though that the basic problem lies in the fact that you are living in a country (ie Britain) that "should" have somewheres between 17 million and 30 million people (depending whose analysis of our overpopulation problem one reads) - but actually has 64 million people I believe (and I think thats just the number entitled to be here - ie who are "officially in residence"). Basic economics lesson time - too many people chasing too few resources = the price of those resources goes up to an inflated/too high price. Maybe if Britain had the optimum population figure - rather than twice as many at least (officially) as we should have - then you wouldnt have such a problem buying your house?

...ducks out the door fast....I've raised THE taboo subject....overpopulation.....ooh...whoops...I'll have to do several Hail Marys.....oh I think I'll just shut up before I dig an even deeper hole for myself......:D

lostinrates

ceridwen wrote: »

subject....overpopulation.....ooh...whoops...I'll have to do several Hail Marys.....oh I think I'll just shut up before I dig an even deeper hole for myself......:D

Overpopulation is very valid. And not taboo. So long as we can separate the issue of overpopulation from rasism.

lynzpower

Errrrmmm.....might I suggest though that the basic problem lies in the fact that you are living in a country (ie Britain) that "should" have somewheres between 17 million and 30 million people (depending whose analysis of our overpopulation problem one reads) - but actually has 64 million people I believe (and I think thats just the number entitled to be here - ie who are "officially in residence"). Basic economics lesson time - too many people chasing too few resources = the price of those resources goes up to an inflated/too high price. Maybe if Britain had the optimum population figure - rather than twice as many at least (officially) as we should have - then you wouldnt have such a problem buying your house?

...ducks out the door fast....I've raised THE taboo subject....overpopulation.....ooh...whoops...I'll have to do several Hail Marys.....oh I think I'll just shut up before I dig an even deeper hole for myself......:D

Over population is not a problem in this country. In fact there are simply not anywhere near enough babies born to keep the old folk in pensions and state provided care.

its the older generation that is responsible for this, by not dying.

There ar more than enough homes in this country, depending what reports you believe. I work in security looking after vacant commercial and residential stock, we have empty properties coming onto our books EVERY DAY, and at least 50% of this is resi.

There is however a shortage of residential properties that people can afford, and that
is entirely the responsibility of governments and banks for ramping values.. I dont think that the general publiuc can take much repsonsibility, after all there is nothing wrong with aspirations, but banks should have said no- especially as we are talking about thier own risk to thier own balance sheets that have devastated this country and of course "globally".

I absolutely refute that if you happen to have watched any property !!!!!! - that you are some way responsible for the bubble thats created.

That is ABSOLUTE claptrap- I, and so many other posters on here, watch those problems to ironically cackle at the drivel spouted, to chuck socks at the telly and to have a health dose of schedunfraude when alas some poor "developer" thought her could turn a garage in Croydon into a one bed superpad and wants 400+ plus for it.
Dopester, you honestly cant tell me you have NEVER watched one of these :rotfl: