The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

dopester

Max_Headroom wrote: »

Dopester, can I just ask you one question? How old are you? I'm sure it came up before and you did mention it but I can't remember what you said.

Ummm 33 Max.

PasturesNew

harryhound wrote: »

As I adjust to the more than 2 score postings from "Pastures......." on this thread, and the "petite" information; can I just ask where the expression "Working for the man......" comes from?

It's about being a slave to an overbearing boss, never being free....

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/roy-orbison/working-for-the-man.html

LydiaJ

Sorry to come rather late to this discussion. Afraid I've only read about half of it, but just wanted to make a comment.

It stinks that Max doesn't get a reasonable amount of money to keep him going while he looks for a job. Max - I'm so sorry about what you're going through and I hope you find a really great job soon.

It stinks that nothing is done to discourage the "won't work" types. I was somewhat stunned a few months ago to hear an unemployed 18 year old living in a hostel describe the money she receives (and promptly drinks/snorts/smokes most of) each Friday as her "pay".

But some posters (sorry - can't remember who) have talked about wanting the system to support people who end up being single parents unexpectedly. Well, it does. It's helping me very nicely right now.

I didn't choose to be a single parent - my husband left me. He pays me enough maintenance to cover my rent, but I need to fund the rest of my life some other way. CTC etc pays me enough that I can live reasonably comfortably despite only working just over 60% of full time. That means I have a little time to spend with my kids, trying to do a half decent job of parenting. It means a lot to them that they only have to go to wrap-around care for 3 days a week, and that on the other 2 days Mummy is there in person at the school gate. (They're both primary school age.)

So I do well out of it, and I'm grateful. That doesn't stop me being outraged on Max's behalf, and this isn't supposed to be an "I'm all right Jack" post - I just wanted to make the point that it isn't quite universal that the only people to get any money out of the system are the work-shy.

Oh, and finally, CB is a flat rate for everyone, and CTC and WTC are assessed on your income, not your capital. (That's your income for the previous financial year, not the current one, unless it's hugely more.) You can have as much savings as you like, and it doesn't make any difference. Savings make a difference to most other benefits, but not those ones. That's no use, of course, to people who don't have any kids or a job, and so don't get either kind of tax credit, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Max_Headroom_3

dopester wrote: »

Ummm 33 Max.

Hmmm... interesting.

I must admit I think I'd stopped believing I had all the answers and realised how little I really knew but the time I'd reached my thirties.

Still, well done on saving up, what, £150,000 ish in I guess (allowing for further education and low paid jobs early in career) 10 years!?

Fantastic.

Max_Headroom_3

dopester wrote: »

I'm sorry Max if you think I was not being sympathetic to your situation. It might not have been the best thread to air my thoughts on - right or wrong. Wish you good fortune in securing employment that you enjoy in the near future.

I don't think you were being unsympathetic,you just seem to have an extraordinary talent for reading everything written and instantly discounting anything that doesn't fit your view.

Many times I and others have explained that no ones looking for the state to "keep them in the lifestyle to which they're accustomed".

Many times its been stated that you don't profit from and can't spend an increase in house value (not without selling up in which case you're just incurring a load more pointless expense), even going as far as to ask you to explain how house price inflation makes a person "wealthier".

Yet still, many posts later, there you are claiming that I'm expecting the state to keep my in the lifestyle I'm accustomed to and how I've got nothing to complain about or worry about as my house has gone up so much in price that I'm therefore somehow wealthy.

And right in my initial post I explained that this has come to my attention (and will for many many others) due to circumstances and it's an eye opener.

And still you trot out yet again "oh, you didn't complain when you were working did you?"

It's quite bizarre it really is.

So my desire not to continue the conversation with you has nothing to do with thinking that you're being unsympathetic (I wasn't after sympathy in the first place, merely highlighting the situation) and everything to do with the fact that it is completely pointless!

It's like trying to have a discussion with a parrot! :rolleyes:

mewbie_2

dopester wrote: »

Mewbie, even when I've crossed swords with mitchaa, chucky, DD and Conrad, and many others, on the issues, never do I wish them real hard-times or ill-will.

Actually dopester I was being a bit "holier than thou", not often I get the chance. I've made plenty of mistakes / personal attacks on here (and hope to carry on doing so), so bit mealy mouthed of me to start criticising.

fitzmum

LydiaJ wrote: »

Sorry to come rather late to this discussion. Afraid I've only read about half of it, but just wanted to make a comment.

It stinks that Max doesn't get a reasonable amount of money to keep him going while he looks for a job. Max - I'm so sorry about what you're going through and I hope you find a really great job soon.

It stinks that nothing is done to discourage the "won't work" types. I was somewhat stunned a few months ago to hear an unemployed 18 year old living in a hostel describe the money she receives (and promptly drinks/snorts/smokes most of) each Friday as her "pay".

But some posters (sorry - can't remember who) have talked about wanting the system to support people who end up being single parents unexpectedly. Well, it does. It's helping me very nicely right now.

I didn't choose to be a single parent - my husband left me. He pays me enough maintenance to cover my rent, but I need to fund the rest of my life some other way. CTC etc pays me enough that I can live reasonably comfortably despite only working just over 60% of full time. That means I have a little time to spend with my kids, trying to do a half decent job of parenting. It means a lot to them that they only have to go to wrap-around care for 3 days a week, and that on the other 2 days Mummy is there in person at the school gate. (They're both primary school age.)

So I do well out of it, and I'm grateful. That doesn't stop me being outraged on Max's behalf, and this isn't supposed to be an "I'm all right Jack" post - I just wanted to make the point that it isn't quite universal that the only people to get any money out of the system are the work-shy.

Oh, and finally, CB is a flat rate for everyone, and CTC and WTC are assessed on your income, not your capital. (That's your income for the previous financial year, not the current one, unless it's hugely more.) You can have as much savings as you like, and it doesn't make any difference. Savings make a difference to most other benefits, but not those ones. That's no use, of course, to people who don't have any kids or a job, and so don't get either kind of tax credit, but it seemed worth mentioning.

My husband has been laid off and has to go to 'sign on' next week. Does that mean that they will take into account what he earned last year when calculating any WTC or CTC? How can that be right? We need help NOW - regardless of what he earned LAST year. Its crazy!

treliac

Thanks dopester, from what you've said about your struggle to get a foothold in the housing market, I doubt there's anyone who'll deserve it more than you, when you do get there.

Life's a struggle in general, unless you're one of the few who sail through life without having to achieve anything much (and would that really be good?). Resentment doesn't help and at worst can harm our health. I have my ups and downs definitely and I'm worrying at the moment as OH's job position may be looking fragile going into the autumn. We've been there and done redundancy, twice before ... I'm really hoping not to have to tread the path again, especially being that much older. Nevertheless, living with insecurity helps me value what I do have and life's short so I want to make the most of it!

In the meantime there's a summer to look forward to, hopefully a good one and a bonus for those who'll have to stay at home this year.

Max_Headroom_3

treliac wrote: »

Thanks dopester, from what you've said about your struggle to get a foothold in the housing market, I doubt there's anyone who'll deserve it more than you, when you do get there.

Doesn't sound like he's struggling overmuch at the moment, having just stated that he could wander out tomorrow and buy a decent property outright for cash.

Sensibly he's waiting to see whether house prices drop further (as I would myself in his position) but that in itself isn't a struggle particularly...

Max_Headroom_3

Oh, one more anecdote from my eye opening experiences of the benefit system.

When it was announced at the beginning of April that I would be made redundant at the beginning of May I started fervently hunting for a job. Was quite encouraged to find a few advertised (albeit not in my specialist field, but in a parallel situation, so good skills cross-over I'd thought). So I started applying through April, hoping to hear from one or two early May.

By the middle of May I had heard absolutely nothing, and became aware that this wasn't going to be quite as easy as I'd naively hoped. So I figured I'd better sign on, get some money coming in (although as discussed, not a lot).

So I signed on, and claimed from when I was made redundant, beginning of May. I was asked why I didn't claim till middle of May and I explained that I'd hoped not to have had to sign on at all, and rather than claim instantly I didn't in fact do so until it became apparent that my time out of work would likely be longer term than I'd hoped.

I got confirmation of the claim through yesterday, saying that they would only pay me from the point I signed on, not from when I was made redundant, as I had delayed in making the claim.

The clear inference being, I was being punished, fined in effect, for not immediately grabbing whatever benefit I could but initially trying to survive without.

Clearly the culture as far as the benefit office is concerned is that we should all be grabbing as much as we can as soon as we can, and if we try to get by without claiming and then find that we have to we will be financially penalised for having tried to avoid claiming!!

Is it any wonder the benefit system is in such a mess...? :rolleyes: