A Tradesmans rant

Debt_Free_Chick

nexuss wrote: »

Can i ask when tradesmen say a day do they actually mean 6-8 hours ?

Possibly not on a customer's job. But they have all the "business maintenance" to see to as well - including invoicing, chasing debts, basic book/record keeping, doing quotes, advertising, seeing to business insurance, maintenance of tools/equipment etc etc etc. These are all things that employers do when you're employed. When you're SE you have to do both - "the job" and the "employer stuff". So being available to do the same hours "work" is not realistic. To use my previous example, the 228 days available for work would reduce even further i.e. even fewer days in which to earn 261 days of pay, so the daily rate should increase (again)

Also what percentage of business is cash and never goes through the books ?

Very little in my experience - the vast majority of tradespeople/SE are honest, decent and hardworking. Cheats are cheats no matter whether they're employed, SE, on benefits or millionaires

marleyboy

shandypants5 wrote: »

Nope..... in all honesty. cut corners if you want it any different.

I dont think its cutting corners, everyone has overheads, I am sure there are many fully qualified tradesmen out there offering various prices, yet offering the same professional service as their rivals.

Both British Airways and Virgin Airlines are an example of rival competition in business, was it not BA who got caught attempting to "price hike" with other airlines, so they could "UP" the price?

I am not accusing Tradesmen of "price hiking" nor would I accuse them of conning us customers, but in business, you have competition. All a customer wants, is the best deal, both in the product and the cost, there is absolutely nothing wrong in that at all. That isn't cutting any corners.

thechippy

nexuss wrote: »

I realise most tradesmen have it tough and good luck to them but it just got me when the OP said anyone working for less than the £180 he charges must be fiddling.

I know other tradesmen and I know they fiddle, that's why they can sometimes charge less. I'm not saying it's the case with all of them. I'm not saying I'm perfect or the best in the trade. It takes a long time to learn our skills and a lot of money on tools and equipment and I don't think it's unfair to charge accordingly. I treat my clients how I expect to be treated myself - I break my neck to do a good job and give excellent aftersales service.

@ Bubblefrogette (and some other posters)
There are many people in valuable positions who do an excellent and important job, who are grossly underpaid - it does not mean that I'm overpaid.

sodamnfunky

andyhop wrote: »

The right tools are essential in doing the best job in the least amount of time,I specified Dewalt,all my tools are fit for purpose,do the job well when used correctly and save me time which saves the customer £££

As a example,Gone have the days off cutting timber by hand or with a jigsaw,Plunge saw with rail,Perfect cuts every time,chip free laminates and 5x quicker than by hand.

If i was to charge £120 a day i would be making little above minimum wage,advertising costs(as i am a newish business) last year came to over 8k,Yell adverts,website,van sign writing,Newspaper adverts,Leaflets.I am in business to make a living AND to show PROFIT.

What utter b0llocks.
The right tools are needed for the job, but they do not have to be Dewalt or for that matter an expensive brand, granted B&Q, Wickes etc's own brand are next to no good, but this whole industry thing that the big brand names are the best is rubbish. I know lots of so called Carpenters, who have all got Dewalt tools, and they cannot even get a door to swing properly, and ask them to create a piece of furniture, you would be better off asking them to perform brain surgery.

8k on advertising??? Van sign writing?- Magnetic signs from Vistaprint, cost me £14 for 4. Best £14 I spent.

Website- Build it yourself. I make a decent living, and always show a profit.

I have not cut timber by hand for years, unless I am faced with timber too big to use a chop saw.

The comments on here are typical of the narrow mind's of most in the building trade. It is no wonder there is a such a stigma attached to the industry.
We are in recession, therefore we have to look at our charges, but then I have seen this coming for a few years.

shandypants5

marleyboy wrote: »

I am not accusing Tradesmen of "price hiking" nor would I accuse them of conning us customers, but in business, you have competition. All a customer wants, is the best deal, both in the product and the cost, there is absolutely nothing wrong in that at all. That isn't cutting any corners.

But it is cutting their own profit.

They are self employed to make something of themselves (I wish I had the courage).

If they wanted to work for minimum wage then maybe they all should all get jobs at Mcdonalds.
Then you would have to pay a "proper" company to fix your boiler or mend your roof.

sodamnfunky

nexuss wrote: »

Can i ask when tradesmen say a day do they actually mean 6-8 hours ? Also what percentage of business is cash and never goes through the books ?

My day is 8 hours, and for that I work hard, and compared to alot of people I see in the trade, I work around an hour a day more than they do. If I need materials, I organise myself to get them before I say I will arrive at the job.

I must be doing something extremely right, as I have not needed to advertise in the past 6 months. I am regularly told by my clients that I am not like most in the trade.

thechippy

zax47 wrote: »

With an attitude like that, you can f-off! Customers like you NO-ONE needs, you aren't worth the hassle!!

I love it when jerks like you have a cheap job go t*ts up on you and can't get hold of the cowboy to finish it or put it right. Oh, you'll ring me now, will you - because I gave you a proper, written, itemised quote (which you thought too expensive!) with contact details and a real address on?

Oh dear, the cowboy you employed has left you with no power? Oh dear he has no training or qualifications and doesn't know why the RCD he fitted keeps tripping? Oh and you've paid up front, in cash and he isn't answering his mobile?

Well guess what, the price just doubled and I'm busy for the next 50 years, now go waste someone else's time you cheapskate. Serves you right!

Or am I being harsh?

John Ruskin has a perfect quote for situations like this.

"Who is the bigger fool? He who paid the least or he who paid more? If you pay a little more, all you loose is a little money. If you pay too little then you need to keep something in reserve, to make sure what you purchased does the job it should and for as long as you need it to. In which case you could have paid a little more and got the right thing in the first place"

"Cheapest is not always best - a far better measure is value for money".

Sorry, but the funniest thing I've read all day.......:rotfl:

marleyboy

shandypants5 wrote: »

Marleyboy, can I ask what type of work you do for a living?

Not being vindictive I am just interested to see what type of people see a "Tradesman" as valuable or not.

dont feel pressurised, I am just interested.

I was self employed but a long time ago and I am no qualified tradesman, so cant pretend to know what costs are involved in it, but I as a general member of the public, seeking a professional job to be done in my home, would go on recommendation as well as price comparison.

No matter what the job involved, if you need a plumber, your not going to grab the first one you see to fix a leak, your going to at the very least, look for a cheaper quote and check that it is someone you can trust to do the job properly. The same would go for any kind of job I feel I cant do efficiently myself.

Anybody can say "I'm the best - everyone else is ripping you off but me", words are not nearly enough to cover that.

This is not a stab at £180 a day salaries, If you can get that much money, then good on you, to me its about looking for the same amount for service (by any of you), for the cheapest cost, both material, professional and financial.

marleyboy

shandypants5 wrote: »

But it is cutting their own profit.

They are self employed to make something of themselves (I wish I had the courage).

If they wanted to work for minimum wage then maybe they all should all get jobs at Mcdonalds.
Then you would have to pay a "proper" company to fix your boiler or mend your roof.

I'm sorry, but I the Customer, couldnt give a hoot about a companies profits, all I care about is my Bill for it.

thechippy

marleyboy wrote: »

I was self employed but a long time ago and I am no qualified tradesman, so cant pretend to know what costs are involved in it, but I as a general member of the public, seeking a professional job to be done in my home, would go on recommendation as well as price comparison.

No matter what the job involved, if you need a plumber, your not going to grab the first one you see to fix a leak, your going to at the very least, look for a cheaper quote and check that it is someone you can trust to do the job properly. The same would go for any kind of job I feel I cant do efficiently myself.

Anybody can say "I'm the best - everyone else is ripping you off but me", words are not nearly enough to cover that.

This is not a stab at £180 a day salaries, If you can get that much money, then good on you, to me its about looking for the same amount for service (by any of you), for the cheapest cost, both material, professional and financial.

I agree again........

It's very difficult indeed for the public to know who to trust. A high price does not always guarantee the best work, or the lower price the worst. It can be a tough call.
Like you said, the best thing to do is go by recommendation and a "gut" feel.
However, I would reiterate that "generally" a lower price should be seen as suspect.