Is MBNA within its rights to ask me to do this ?

never-in-doubt

Degenerate wrote: »

The OP clearly stated his situation. MBNA have demanded a concession from him, without which they will not agree the arrangement to pay. He is asking if they can legally do this. The answer is yes.

For the last time no they cannot do this! They are under obligation to accept any reasonable offer of payment and trust me, £60 per month is seem as an absolute offer and will be accepted by the courts!

Yes, I guess MBNA can ask this concession but they cannot enforce it nor can they refuse to negotiate whilst they seek for you to cancel sky. You say no, they accept it or you walk away and refuse to pay.

What is difficult in that? and perfectly lawful. I think you need to stop using the word legal and stick to lawful, quite different with different meanings/outcomes/standings.

Degenerate wrote: »

I have not for one second suggested that legalities are not important. It is simply that the legalities of negotiating an arrangement to pay are clearly not what you think they are. One does not need an explicit legal right to demand a particular concession in negotiations. In the real world, the whole point of negotiations is for both parties to reach an agreement before resorting to legal process. If a satisfactory arrangement cannot be agreed, then the letter of the law comes into play.

You are just trying to be argumentative, we can see that (so can all the posters) but its ok, you keep it up! You read the above again and see the obvious error - i'll leave it for you to spot then shall I?....

fool, utter nonsense that you spill is shocking!

OP, bottom line is if MBNA hassle you tell them to get lost and let them try and take action. If they went to court you'd be fine offering to pay at least 50% less than you currently do and would be ok to keep sky as well.

Degenerate

never-in-doubt wrote: »

For the last time no they cannot do this! They are under obligation to accept any reasonable offer of payment and trust me, £60 per month is seem as an absolute offer and will be accepted by the courts!

You seem to think the sum of £60 must be deemed a "reasonable offer" regardless of circumstance, and you are flat-out wrong. If MBNA have their act together in court, and present evidence that he is able to pay more, but prefers to spend it on the luxury of Sky TV, then they will easily win the day. The recording of the call should do it.

Yes, I guess MBNA can ask this concession

How many times is that now you've reversed?

never-in-doubt

Degenerate wrote: »

You seem to think the sum of £60 must be deemed a "reasonable offer" regardless of circumstance, and you are flat-out wrong. If MBNA have their act together in court, and present evidence that he is able to pay more, but prefers to spend it on the luxury of Sky TV, then they will easily win the day. The recording of the call should do it.

I am simply stating that if the OP makes an offer that is deemed reasonable then any court will stand by this. Put it this way, he has been paying £60 per month which obviously was acceptable to MBNA. If therefore, the OP really would struggle to get an extra £8 per month trust me, the court will say he is too close to the breadline and enforce something like £20 per month!

That is what courts do, they see that a lender will not miss £8 per month but it could cripple a family and make them destitute.

Degenerate wrote: »

How many times is that now you've reversed?

Never

I've always stated; as has Nick that MBNA can ask what they want, it doesn't mean they can legally enforce it. Kinda like me asking you to drop this nonsense - i've asked but have no legal powers to enforce it so when you say no and carry on - what can I do? Nothing! That is the point i'm making. :whistle:

The OP was asked by MBNA to reduce Sky; I recommend he tells MBNA to begger off. They have no legal powers to enforce him to reduce his sky package.

That, I guess, ends this argument. Accept it. Over. Finished. Dead. :hello:

Unsubscribing.....:p

Degenerate

never-in-doubt wrote: »

I've always stated; as has Nick that MBNA can ask what they want, it doesn't mean they can legally enforce it. Kinda like me asking you to drop this nonsense - i've asked but have no legal powers to enforce it so when you say no and carry on - what can I do? Nothing! That is the point i'm making. :whistle:

No, that is where you've shifted the goalposts to, after I repeatedly pointed out that MBNA were perfectly entitled to do what they have done. You started off telling the OP that they absolutely cannot do this. Do you really need me to lift quotes from earlier in the thread to demonstrate how 100% flat-out wrong you were?

The OP was asked by MBNA to reduce Sky; I recommend he tells MBNA to begger off. They have no legal powers to enforce him to reduce his sky package.

But they do not have to agree to an arrangement to pay, they can take it to court, and if you think the court will see £63 for Sky TV as reasonable, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

RedRobbo

Can Someone please help?

I have requested from MBNA a copy of my CCA, which I received, but I need to know if this is enforceable, there are no details proving that this document is the original. can anyone help with this

thank you in advance.

1 Key Financial information

1a We will choose your credit limit and tell you what it is. We may vary it at any time and write to let you know.

1b By the payment due date shown on your statement each month, you must pay whichever is the least of:

-2.25% of the balance shown on the statement( but you must pay at least £5); or
-the charges for payment protection cover, plus interest charged on the statement, handling fees and default charges, plus £5; or
the balance on the statement if this is less than £5.

1c Your annual percentage Rate is 15.9% APR(variable).

2 Other financial information

2a If, for example, you immediately borrow £1,500 and pay it back in 12 equal monthly instalments, your total charge for credit under this agreement would be £123.71, not including the £1500.

2b The interest we will charge on transactions, including for introductory promotions, will be as set out below, note that we will not increase any promotional rate during the promotional period, unless you do not keep to the terms and conditions. If you do not keep to the terms and conditions, we may totally withdraw any promotional rates which apply to your account and apply the standard rates shown below.

-card purchases: In the first nine months from the account opening date, we will charge interest at the rate of 15.9% pa ( a year). After that , we will charge a standard rate of 15.9% p.a ( a year).

-balance transfers: In the first nine months from the account opening date, we will charge interest at the rate of 0% p.a( a year(. After that , we will charge a standard rate of 15.9%p.a (a year)

Cheque transactions: In the first nine months from the account opening date, we will charge interest at the rate of 0% p.a (a year). After that , we will charge a standard rate of 15.9% p.a (a year)

Cash transactions: IN the first nine months from the account opening date, we will charge interest at the rate of 20.9% p.a ( a year). After that, we will charge a standard rate of 20.9% p.a (a year)

2c We will charge a handling fee for all balance transfers, cheque transactions and cash transactions. All handling fees will be 2% of the amount of each transaction. For cheque transactions and balance transfers the handling fee will be at least $3 and no more than £50. for cash transactions the handling fee will be at least £2 and there will be no maximum handling fee. We will charge an annual fee of £0.

2d We will charge interest on handling fees, and on interest you already owe, at the rate which appliers to the relevant transaction. We will not charge interest on the card purchases shown on your statement if you pay off the whole balance shown on that statement, and on the statement before, by the date the payment is due. However, we will always charge interest on the any annual fee, service charges and default charges at the rate which applies to card purchases. Except as stated in relations to card purchases in this paragraph, we will charge interest on all transactions, handling fees, service charges, default charges and interest starting on the transaction date and ending on the date you pay the bill in full. we work out interest each day, so the earlier you make a payment, the less interest you will have to pay.

2e We will add transactions to your account after the payment system under which we have issued your card lets us know about them, we will add interest to your account on each statement date. We will add the handling fees, any annual fee, service charges and default charges immediately.

2f we will will use your payments to pay items at lower rates of interest on your statement before items at higher rates of interest. Also, we will use your payments to pay items showing on your statement before items not yet showing on your statement.

2g In working out the APR we have not taken account of any change in interest rate or handling fees or any annual fee. We may change any of our interest rates and handling fees and change how we charge interest, as long as we give you 14 days’ notice. We may reduce the interest rate on any item for a period.

3 Key informations

3a If you break this agreement, you must pay the following default charges.

-£25 each time your payment has not reached your account within one day of the date your payment is due.

-£25 each time a cheque, direct debit , a credit-chard cheque or other item for payment is unpaid.

-£25 each time the account balance goes over your credit limit( after taking into account any items not yet shown on any statement).

-Any other losses and costs we suffer as a result of you breaking this agreement.

We Will add these directly to your account. We may change the amount of these default charges if we give you notice.

3b Details of other service charges are set out in section 4

Missing Payments

Missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit more difficult.

Important - Read this carefully to find out about your rights

The consumer credit act 1974 lays down certain requirements for your protection which should have been complied with when this agreement was made. If they were not, we cannot enforce this agreement without a court order.

The act also gives you a number of rights:

You can settle this agreement at any time by giving notice in writing and paying off the amount you owe under the agreement.

If you received unsatisfactory goods or services paid for under this agreement, apart from any bought with a cash loan, you may have a right to sue the supplier, us, or both.

If the contract is not fulfilled, perhaps because the supplier has gone out of business, you may still be able to sue us.

If you would like to know more about your rights under the Act, contact either your local trading standards department or your nearest Citizens’ Advice Bureau.

theft, Loss or misuse of credit card.

If your credit card is lost stolen or misused by someone without your permission, you may have to pay up to £0 of any loss to us. f it is misused with your permission you will probably be liable for all losses. You will not be liable to us for losses which take place after you have told us about the theft, etc.

Your right to cancel

Once you have signed this agreement, you will have a short time in which you can cancel it. we will send you exact details of how and when you ca do this.

This is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. sign if only if you want to be legally bound y its terms.

Acceptance of terms and conditions:

Please tick this box:

I confirm that the tick in this box is valid means of establishing the authenticity ad integrity of my signature to this credit agreement. I understand that MBNA will hold the acceptance data on their files.

Date of signature: 24/3/06

above are section 1-3 of your terms and conditions. The rest of your terms and conditions(i.e. sections 4-16 including definitions) can be viewed by clicking the Terms and conditions link at the top of this page

Executed by hugh Chater (director) on behalf of MBNA
Date of signature: 24/3/2006

never-in-doubt

Degenerate wrote: »

No, that is where you've shifted the goalposts to, after I repeatedly pointed out that MBNA were perfectly entitled to do what they have done. You started off telling the OP that they absolutely cannot do this. Do you really need me to lift quotes from earlier in the thread to demonstrate how 100% flat-out wrong you were?

But they do not have to agree to an arrangement to pay, they can take it to court, and if you think the court will see £63 for Sky TV as reasonable, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Right this is getting ridiculous now. The OP has his answer, stop splitting hairs. You know damn well fine what we were saying; we have always maintained the lender cannot ask you to do this. In the term 'ask you' we meant (didn't think we had to spell it out, evidently I was wrong on that one!) the lender has no legal power to demand you do this. Obviously the lender can 'ask' but that doesn't mean we have to abide and you know we meant this.

Get real if you think a judge gives two hoots about sky tv! You really think the OP would admit that to a judge? NO! also the OP would never see the judge; he'd get a default against him and then i'd suggest he doesn't pay and sits it out for unenforceability!

You have as much knowledge as my left testicle which trust me my son, isn't much! :rotfl::rotfl:

Degenerate

I thought you were done with this thread?

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Right this is getting ridiculous now. The OP has his answer, stop splitting hairs. You know damn well fine what we were saying; we have always maintained the lender cannot ask you to do this. In the term 'ask you' we meant (didn't think we had to spell it out, evidently I was wrong on that one!) the lender has no legal power to demand you do this. Obviously the lender can 'ask' but that doesn't mean we have to abide and you know we meant this.

That's not what you said, that's what you've shifted to after repeated corrections from me. My position has been 100% consistent all along, yet you have gone from telling me I'm wrong to now acknowledging it as correct, but accusing me of spilitting hairs. Sorry, but correcting your basic, fundamentally incorrect statements in answer to the OP is more than splitting hairs. I pointed out very early in the thread that there is a big difference between negotiating an agreement and enforcing a settlement, but you persisted in telling me how wrong I am. If you can't understand this vital distinction, you're in no position to lecture anyone about the law.

Get real if you think a judge gives two hoots about sky tv! You really think the OP would admit that to a judge? NO! also the OP would never see the judge; he'd get a default against him and then i'd suggest he doesn't pay and sits it out for unenforceability!

If the judge really wouldn't give two hoots, why would the OP have to conceal the fact? Not only have you just advocated that the OP commit the serious offence of perjury, you've ignored the fact that MBNA probably have proof on tape if they care to dig it up.

You have as much knowledge as my left testicle which trust me my son, isn't much! :rotfl::rotfl:

You've truly embarrased yourself in this thread, throwing insults at me isn't going to make it better.

Volcane

I deal with people in debt that are before District Judges and a Magistrates' Bench every week - and increasing all the time in this current climate.

Court's WILL look into what money is being spent and WHERE it is being spent and do all the time.

Many people are brought into courts for mortgage / rent / loan / credit card arrearsand much more and what is usually determined is if the person is "wilfully refusing" or "culpably neglecting" to pay (ie. they are not paying due to either burying their head in the sand or bad/none prioritising).

If ANY organasition takes a defaulted customer to court the and that customer claims they cannot pay then Courts perform a means enquiry and determine what they can afford, if anything. They consider the following as essential fr the customer and/or their families:

Mortgage /rent
Food
Clothing
Heating Electric / Gas
Water
Other court enforced payments
Basic tv packages (ag. freeview)

Basically the essentials to live.

In my experience anybody that declares Sky tv, broadband, high mobile phone contracts or the such will be told to put this money towards the debt brought before the court as they are luxeries.

MBNA are only asking (not demanding) that the person prioritises the debts. They are also only asking the same questions that would eventually be asked in court should it go there.

never-in-doubt

Volcane wrote: »

I deal with people in debt that are before District Judges and a Magistrates' Bench every week - and increasing all the time in this current climate.

Court's WILL look into what money is being spent and WHERE it is being spent and do all the time.

I think you're getting confused Mr Lawyer - i'm specifically referring to civil courts, therefore tell me something - assume i'm in the same dilemma as the OP, why would I have to go to court exactly? I don't have to go if I do not want to and the court will not issue a warrant as it is a civil matter!

Therfore no, a judge would not look at sky TV because i;d not go to court! I'd let the lender ccj me which, I also know, they couldn't do so they'd settle for a default which would suit me just fine.

Sorry for the delay but i've actually been emailing certain friends shall I say who confirmed that whilst your post may be accurate, it wouldn't be in a civil debt case unless you went to defend whatever action is being taken and most debtors do not care cos if they aint got the cash they aint got it and no judge can change that!

Hope that clears matters up from this end :eek:

Volcane

The lender doesn't "CCJ you", the Court does.

A CCJ is granted in a County Court not a Civil Court, hence it's name.

Civil Courts deal with civil matters not matters of debt. A civil matter is typically about breach of contracts (most common), torts (civil wrongs such as the causing of a road accident through negligence, damaging a person’s reputation through defamation of character / slander / libel, or affecting the enjoyment of their property through causing a nuisance such as by pollution and land disputes. They also deal with divorce and matrimonial matters.

County Courts deal with defaulted debts that are referred to them by creditors such as MBNA after a default has been placed on file and have failed to entice satisfactory payment from the customer. A County Court Summons is then issued.

You are quite right that a District Judge would not look into anybody's expenses if they did not appear in Court.

They would simply grant the CCJ and the appropriate info sent to the credit reference agencies. However the action does not stop there.

The debt would remain unpaid and the next step would be a County Court Bailiff writing / calling for the debt to be paid.

A County Court Bailiff would execute Warrants of Execution for the granted County Court Judgements. These warrants are issued when a judgement (CCJ) is made. These bailiffs will make arrangements (after all it's less work for them to accept money rather than excute warrants for possession of goods) but will only accept arrangements based on a persons disposable income and, again, will not take any expenses into account that are not considered essential living requirements as in my previous posts.

Of course if you simply do not respond to the bailiffs visits and calls and can hold out and avoid them long enough and the default / CCJ is something you can live with there is in fact very little they can do to secure the debt.