Should I complain......again?

blimey40

sunnyskies.

The CSA will probably pursue him with extra vigour, as the sums involved owuld run into thousands

koolmummy

mitchaa wrote: »

If someone does not want to pay, they are not going to pay. The thing is, unless they stick him behind bars (Unlikely seeing as there is no room, not even for people that carry knives) then how do they go about making him pay £20k+ in arrears from an income of only JSA?

Being Ltd company he is hidden, as he can pay himself a pittance and keep everything else in the company. It's a loophole that the CSA just cannot get around.
(Yes they can)

I would personally stop wasting my time and effort and move on from the complete waste of space as it's highly unlikely that you are ever going to get anything. He will keep moving from pillar to post everytime they catch up with him and there is not a lot anyone can do about it.

Yes I accept what you are saying Mitcha, however, he is working at the moment and his income will be over £100k per annum. Whilst I'm sure that he will go back on JSA prior to the committal hearing, the CSA barrister will be able to show that
1. he has earned money whilst on JSA in the past (criminal compliance findings) and 2. He has shown a willful refusal to pay.

I agree that in all likelehood he will evade and never pay anything, but, having the CSA on his back means that he is always feeling the pressure of them chasing him.

Whilst I have no desire to cause him problems, I do beleive very strongly that he has a moral and legal duty to assist in the upkeep of his children, whose lifestyles have changed radically due to his refusal to assist. Therefore I will keep at it indefinately.

DCodd

I have to say I am totaly dumb-founded by this!!

I am a man with no kids of his own, so only have the experience of my O/H trying to get money out of her ex, but why can't the CSA just get an attatchment of earnings for your whatever he is?

the money would be deducted directly from his wages and if the wages were so small that the money could not be deducted, then once he filed his accounts showing drawings or dividend payments from his companies, he would be facing a false declaration of earnings charge. Also if he ditched the company and went on to JSA and could not prove that the company was loosing money then that would prove deliberate avoidance would it not?

Am I really that naive? it is that easy to dupe the CSA?

kelloggs36

They can in a lot of cases, but those who are self employed or own their own business can't have a DEO - they have to have other enforcement action. my ex is about to have yet another committal hearing as he still owes about 2k out of 26k owed - he paid the rest by remortgaging as he had the choice to do that or go to prison for failing to pay. He chose to pay. He failed to pay all of it, so the whole sorry scenario started again where he agreed to pay £5 per week which he made NO payments, so bailffs were instructed and he paid £150 per month for about 3 months, and then stopped. He has ignored any other contact since then and so the CSA told me that they have been left with no choice but to go back to court. With his track record, they are going straight for committal hearing. Will know what happens in about 2-3 months.

koolmummy

DCodd wrote: »

I have to say I am totaly dumb-founded by this!!

I am a man with no kids of his own, so only have the experience of my O/H trying to get money out of her ex, but why can't the CSA just get an attatchment of earnings for your whatever he is?

the money would be deducted directly from his wages and if the wages were so small that the money could not be deducted, then once he filed his accounts showing drawings or dividend payments from his companies, he would be facing a false declaration of earnings charge. Also if he ditched the company and went on to JSA and could not prove that the company was loosing money then that would prove deliberate avoidance would it not?

Am I really that naive? it is that easy to dupe the CSA?

Yes it really does appear to be that easy!
As kellogs says, they can't get an attachment of earnings as he is self employed.
The accounts that he files to the revenue are complete fairy tale - they show him with an income of £30k per annum. He doesn't pay corporation tax or file returns, he liquidates the company and opens another, starts all over again.

He is now on LTD company 4. There appears to be nothing that can be done about this either.:mad:

DCodd

koolmummy wrote: »

Yes it really does appear to be that easy!
As kellogs says, they can't get an attachment of earnings as he is self employed.
The accounts that he files to the revenue are complete fairy tale - they show him with an income of £30k per annum. He doesn't pay corporation tax or file returns, he liquidates the company and opens another, starts all over again.

He is now on LTD company 4. There appears to be nothing that can be done about this either.:mad:

I am sorry for you, he seems to be a total, well won't say what he seems to be!!!

what annoys me is that the CSA do not have any teeth! they should be able to confront him a bluntly say deal with us or we can instruct HMRC to go through your tax affairs with a fine tooth comb! Poor stewardship of his companies etc etc, they should have that type of power!!!

If he is not taking a salary from the Ltd Co, does he employ other people? if not how can he prove the company is trading when it has no staff? again HMRC should be working with CSA on this type of problem!

What needs to be done is that people in your position should become preferential creditors of the defunct company, at least you would get something!!!

Sorry no help I know and just a rant but it all seems very wrong to me!

Blob

There is nothing to stop anyone going to HMRC and saying that they think that someone is on the fiddle and they will act on that!

The CAS dont need any more power, they cant use thet ones that they have at this time as they were ment to. Give them more and you will just make the system worse as without a doubt they will abuse them. They need thier powers curbed so that they dont cause anyone else to take their own life, or deprive any more children of homes, as they are at this time.

lallychops

I have a similar story with a self-employed NRP, and have been told time and time again that if the HMRC are happy with his declared earnings (of nothing) then the CSA have to take that - despite his declared earnings not actually being enough to cover his mortgage, oh and not actually bothering to file a return for four years....

Dcodd - I agree entirely that the CSA have no teeth . For the self-employed they only seem to be able to tickle the NRP with a feather. I am four years in to the funny world of the CSA and also wonder if it worth the stress. I have been lied to, had calls/letters "disappear", had the same conversations over and over again as it seems there is never "anything on the computer". Been told by staff that "quite honestly we say what we need to say to get people off the phone as we are so busy" and am just about losing the will to go on.
My ex of course is adored by his children as he has cash to splash on them every other week-end whilst at boring home mummy is skint and can't afford to do anything. Of course I am glad the children are blissfully unaware of what a low-life their dad is but it is very hard emotionally to be delighted with all the new gadgets that "dad has got" every time I pick them up from his.

Hey ho, its good to rant, but yes, I think I'm joining the ones that feel it is a pointless waste of life trying to get anywhere with the CSa and the self-employed.
BTW My MP didn't even respond to my letters.....

Any advice before I throw in the towel completely?!

frannyann

mitchaa wrote: »

If someone does not want to pay, they are not going to pay. The thing is, unless they stick him behind bars (Unlikely seeing as there is no room, not even for people that carry knives) then how do they go about making him pay £20k+ in arrears from an income of only JSA?

Being Ltd company he is hidden, as he can pay himself a pittance and keep everything else in the company. It's a loophole that the CSA just cannot get around.

I would personally stop wasting my time and effort and move on from the complete waste of space as it's highly unlikely that you are ever going to get anything. He will keep moving from pillar to post everytime they catch up with him and there is not a lot anyone can do about it.

I have to agree with this, mainly because after 3 years of the CSA being unable to get a penny out of ex-husband even though I let them know of change of addresses, work place etc etc. I realised that it was for his moral code to deal with not supporting his child, who I ensure he sees reguarly. Plus once I stopped stressing myself out dealing with the CSA, I was much happier and just enjoyed being with our child!

frugallass

lallychops wrote: »

I have a similar story with a self-employed NRP, and have been told time and time again that if the HMRC are happy with his declared earnings (of nothing) then the CSA have to take that - despite his declared earnings not actually being enough to cover his mortgage, oh and not actually bothering to file a return for four years....

Dcodd - I agree entirely that the CSA have no teeth . For the self-employed they only seem to be able to tickle the NRP with a feather. I am four years in to the funny world of the CSA and also wonder if it worth the stress. I have been lied to, had calls/letters "disappear", had the same conversations over and over again as it seems there is never "anything on the computer". Been told by staff that "quite honestly we say what we need to say to get people off the phone as we are so busy" and am just about losing the will to go on.
My ex of course is adored by his children as he has cash to splash on them every other week-end whilst at boring home mummy is skint and can't afford to do anything. Of course I am glad the children are blissfully unaware of what a low-life their dad is but it is very hard emotionally to be delighted with all the new gadgets that "dad has got" every time I pick them up from his.

Hey ho, its good to rant, but yes, I think I'm joining the ones that feel it is a pointless waste of life trying to get anywhere with the CSa and the self-employed.
BTW My MP didn't even respond to my letters.....

same experience for me too - my ex was supposedly supporting his new girlfriend and her 3 kids, driving around in a brand new sports car and taking 2 foreign holidays per year on a take home pay £201 a week - he's a self-employed, experienced builder and he reckoned he was earning less than me !

I reported him to everyone I possibly could but it made no difference whatsoever, the tax fraud people are only interested in the big players, not the small time cash-in-hand workers

I live 250 miles away and find it extremely difficult to prove anything - unless I paid for a private investigation but I can't afford that

I heard that the CSA could look at bank statements etc but again, they just told me they had seen his declaration sent to HMRC and that was enough

CSA/ ICE / HMRC just don't want to know - it's far too much hassle for them

I've come to conclusion that if you are up-front and honest about your lifestyle the CSA screw you emotionally and physically, if you lie through your teeth then you get away with it

I'm now grateful that my daughter is old enough to realise what a liar her father is - she's certainly had her eyes opened over the last 12 months - she's lost a lot of respect for her father, just like I have lost respect for the government and their pathetic agencies (and the staff, don't get me started on the staff...)