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QOTW: Can energy suppliers reclaim the cost of unbilled energy after a year?

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  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,060 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Rampant Recycler
    edited 21 July 2009 at 11:56AM
    We moved into our flat in December 2002. At the time my partner was working for a reatielr where he got commission for tranfering utility supplier to NPower. we obviously changed bith electricity and gas as we got the commission for both. Since then we have onyl received electricity bills but never a gas bill. we have has various companies in over the years to read the gas meter though!

    We have now recieved a red bill in the name of the previous owner saying that over £6000 is owed within 7 days or they will cut supply to the flat.

    What can i do?

    The position is far from clear when you first move in to a property.

    The onus is on you to ensure that the supplier has all your details etc and you cannot ignore letters addressed to 'The Occupier'. A phone call would not suffice as proof, and you would normally need something in writing from Npower.

    To be in the flat for 7 years without getting a bill, and doing nothing about contacting them, will not put you in a strong position if you get taken to court.

    That said there is provision in the billing code that if a bill has not been raised they can only back-bill you for 12 months. It is important to note that raising a bill is different to you receiving a bill - in your name or the occupier.

    If that provision applies in your case will depend on the details.
  • Mrs_Arcanum
    Mrs_Arcanum Posts: 23,976 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 14 February 2011 at 3:53PM
    Due to an error on the supplier/electricity billers part no bills have been received for 2 years. Can they legally chase up for more than a year? The occupiers of the property would have no reason to worry about this as the bills are paid on their behalf by the landlord as part of their housing support.

    I would add, the bills were being generated but never actually sent.
    Truth always poses doubts & questions. Only lies are 100% believable, because they don't need to justify reality. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon, The Labyrinth of the Spirits
  • Premier_2
    Premier_2 Posts: 15,141 Forumite
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    edited 14 February 2011 at 4:01PM
    Due to an error on the supplier/electricity billers part no bills have been received for 2 years. Can they legally chase up for more than a year? The occupiers of the property would have no reason to worry about this as the bills are paid on their behalf by the landlord as part of their housing support.

    I would add, the bills were being generated but never actually sent.

    That would depend on many factors. e.g. The 12 month back billing rule applies to consumers - the landlord may be treated as a business. It also depends on the supplier being wholly responsible for the error. I know this is what you say, but so do many on here and a little probing then unveils something rather different.

    Bills not being sent would sound like a fault of the supplier (assuming they have a current address to send them). Not being received may be something quite different.
    "Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 2010
  • Mrs_Arcanum
    Mrs_Arcanum Posts: 23,976 Forumite
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    Premier wrote: »
    That would depend on many factors. e.g. The 12 month back billing rule applies to consumers - the landlord may be treated as a business. It also depends on the supplier being wholly responsible for the error. I know this is what you say, but so do many on here and a little probing then unveils something rather different.

    Bills not being sent would sound like a fault of the supplier (assuming they have a current address to send them). Not being received may be something quite different.

    The utility company has admitted the error was on their part. To date the bill was in the name of a Support Worker (only just been changed to our name).

    Whilst we may be classed as a company the tenants pay us a small amount each week for utilities & we than take the worry of bill paying on their behalf. Domestic use classification.
    Truth always poses doubts & questions. Only lies are 100% believable, because they don't need to justify reality. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon, The Labyrinth of the Spirits
  • Premier_2
    Premier_2 Posts: 15,141 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    The utility company has admitted the error was on their part. To date the bill was in the name of a Support Worker (only just been changed to our name).

    Whilst we may be classed as a company the tenants pay us a small amount each week for utilities & we than take the worry of bill paying on their behalf. Domestic use classification.

    In the name of a support worker? :eek:

    The good news is that probably means the supplier would probably assume it was a consumer they were dealing with.
    The bad news is that the support worker would have been personally liable for any bills (ignoring the 12 month issue here) in the event the tenants failed to pay up.

    Now that the account is hopefully in the name of a business rather than an individual, it may well be that you are known as a business and not a consumer. The domestic classification would only relate to the rate of VAT applicable, and is decided upon by the main use of the energy supplied. It can still be supplied to a business.

    How was the account transferred? The usual way would be the previous account holder (the support worker) having a final bill produced and a new account set up in your business name.
    "Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 2010
  • Mrs_Arcanum
    Mrs_Arcanum Posts: 23,976 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Premier wrote: »
    In the name of a support worker? :eek:

    The good news is that probably means the supplier would probably assume it was a consumer they were dealing with.
    The bad news is that the support worker would have been personally liable for any bills (ignoring the 12 month issue here) in the event the tenants failed to pay up.

    Now that the account is hopefully in the name of a business rather than an individual, it may well be that you are known as a business and not a consumer. The domestic classification would only relate to the rate of VAT applicable, and is decided upon by the main use of the energy supplied. It can still be supplied to a business.

    How was the account transferred? The usual way would be the previous account holder (the support worker) having a final bill produced and a new account set up in your business name.

    That would normally be the procedure. However as the first bill received was for nearly a 2 year period no one knew until recently. The support worker has confirmed to the supplier that bills should be in our name and we have agreed.

    The support worker should NEVER have been responsible nor would we expect them to pay. An additional issue was estimated bills as no readings have been taken until we (the support worker then us) received this virtually 2 year old bill.

    My concern is the 2 years worth of bills which were not received through no fault of the Support worker, the tenants or our company. They have "generously" offered £59 for their error when we feel it should be at least 45% of the bill (the approximate amount for 2009).

    And to complicate matters still further we have a company which validates bills, then advises us they are OK to pay. Another link in the chain to miss the lack of payment.
    Truth always poses doubts & questions. Only lies are 100% believable, because they don't need to justify reality. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon, The Labyrinth of the Spirits
  • Premier_2
    Premier_2 Posts: 15,141 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    If you are saying the supplier agreed to just change the name on the bill as it should never have been in teh support worker's personal name in the first place, then the supplier will be aware that you are and have been a business, not a consumer.

    The 12 month back billing rule only applies to consumers. The supplier can legally claim back 6 years (5 in Scotland). I would take the £59 they offered as it is £59 more than they needed to offer.
    "Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 2010
  • Mrs_Arcanum
    Mrs_Arcanum Posts: 23,976 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Premier wrote: »
    If you are saying the supplier agreed to just change the name on the bill as it should never have been in teh support worker's personal name in the first place, then the supplier will be aware that you are and have been a business, not a consumer.

    The 12 month back billing rule only applies to consumers. The supplier can legally claim back 6 years (5 in Scotland). I would take the £59 they offered as it is £59 more than they needed to offer.

    This is where things get somewhat grey. We pay the bills on behalf of the consumers who are charged domestic rate VAT because they are domestic consumers. They are technically still responsible for paying the bill (they pay us the money to do this for them), though we actually send a BACS payment on their behalf. The only reason bills need to be in our name. Where it is most galling is the cheek they had trying to charge the support worker for over a years worth of electricity in the first place.
    Truth always poses doubts & questions. Only lies are 100% believable, because they don't need to justify reality. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon, The Labyrinth of the Spirits
  • Premier_2
    Premier_2 Posts: 15,141 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    This is where things get somewhat grey. We pay the bills on behalf of the consumers who are charged domestic rate VAT because they are domestic consumers. They are technically still responsible for paying the bill (they pay us the money to do this for them), though we actually send a BACS payment on their behalf. The only reason bills need to be in our name. Where it is most galling is the cheek they had trying to charge the support worker for over a years worth of electricity in the first place.

    The person or persons named on the bill are the ones that that are legally responsible for ensuring the supplier is paid. It is they and only they thar=t a supplier will chase in case of non-payment.

    Any third party agreement you have will not interest the supplier.

    As you are not a consumer (irrespective that the bills are based on domestic rated VAT), but a business, this would suggest that the 12 month back billing rule does not apply.
    "Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 2010
  • Mrs_Arcanum
    Mrs_Arcanum Posts: 23,976 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Unfortunately since they got rid of the energy watchdog finding proof of the rules is impossible. We had a similar situation with another property a few years ago and they fully accepted the difference between business charges and domestic charges & all the rights domestic users have as a result. So only charged for the previous year and at the correct rate of VAT.

    Regardless of this, it is the energy supplier/charger who has made the error and admitted so. Not us or the tenants.
    Truth always poses doubts & questions. Only lies are 100% believable, because they don't need to justify reality. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon, The Labyrinth of the Spirits
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