Ticket for (mistakenly) parking in taxicab stand

benls

Hi all,

I was hoping someone could give me some advice on the following.

I was in Liverpool last Saturday night to attend a family birthday celebration. My partner and I saw a pay and display sign so naturally parked the car in one of the only two bays left, immediately under the sign (her mum in the car behind took the other). I noticed that the bays also had separate markings with the word ‘taxi’ written by them, so I got out of the car and followed the arrow on the pay and display sign to the meter to check that we could park there and if so how much we would both need to pay.

I read all of the instructions on the meter which stated that it was only in operation between 8am and 6pm and as the time was 7.30pm we were outside of these times and therefore wouldn't need to pay. Also, none of the other cars in the bays were displaying any tickets in their windows so I walked back to the car to get the others. We then walked down the road to the restaurant, again checking the meter as we passed it.

We arrived back around midnight to find that both cars had parking tickets stuck to the windscreens. We opened the tickets to find that we had been parked in a taxi stand, though the number of the stand was not given in the appropriate box on the ticket. We looked around and couldn't see a single taxi, despite a good proportion of the roadside being empty. I again looked at the pay and display sign and followed it to the meter to read the instructions. Again, I read them in full and couldn't find any reference to taxis, only that the hours of operation were between 8am and 6pm. I returned to the car in confusion to read the parking ticket in full.

Having read the ticket I went back to check for a 3rd time and still couldn’t find any reference to a taxi stand on the parking meter. At this point I looked up to see that there was a sign facing into the road so I entered the middle of the road to read it. At the top of the sign it said ‘no stopping 8pm-6am except taxis’.

I was extremely frustrated as I'd double-checked all of the signs I could see when I initially parked. Yet there was a single sign, facing the road, which I had no opportunity to read without walking into middle of the road amongst oncoming traffic (as there'd been a car parked in front of it when we arrived, although I hadn't noticed the sign then). Had there been clearer signage or any indication on the parking meter then we wouldn't have parked there and would have gone to any of the other bays on nearby roads or onto a side road.

I'm now being asked to pay a fine of £20 (within 14 days) despite having made every reasonable effort to park legally. It seems unfair given that there was only a single sign stating the hours that the bays were taxi only, and this sign was facing into the road and away from the parking meter, which itself made no reference to the taxi rank.

I know it's only £20 but I'm mostly annoyed that I was caught out by inadequate signs and I expect others will be as well.

Does anyone have any advice on whether it's worth appealing/how to go about it? I've already drafted a letter to send to the address given on the ticket tomorrow morning.

Thanks in advance for your help.

peter_the_piper

Crumbs, thats cheap. I'm sure that pics of lines and signs would help the experts here as would a copy of both sides of the pcn, removing personal details first of course. How to post is in the stickies at the start.

Neil_B

peter_the_piper wrote: »

Crumbs, thats cheap.

It's too cheap! i'll explain in a minute.

I was a bit gobsmacked by the story though. i'm not one of the numpties here who usually makes ignorant judgemental comments but that story is so contradictory? You clearly noticed the word 'taxi' on the road (first) and that meant nothing?
it may well be that there is something wrong with the signage but that description did you no favours. Don't use it as part of any appeal! Follow Peter's advice and get some pics.
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penalty £20 ?? the lowest posible discounted penalty for a 'lower level' contravention. Thing is, parking in a taxi bay incurs a higher level penalty so something is wrong and may be invalid. what is the alleged contravention?
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Neil_B

Neil_B wrote: »

It's too cheap! i'll explain in a minute.


penalty £20 ??

So who exactly issued this cos it can't have been LCC?
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sporedude

Why dont you just pay it?

Neil_B

sporedude wrote: »

Why dont you just pay it?

Because he or she is not an idiot like you!

is it a legally marked taxi stand/rank? have you seen it? Would you know anyway?

Is it enforcable legally by merit of being correctly listed in the relevant Traffic Order for the location? Is the signage misleading in some way? is the penalty amount correct (definitely NOT!)

Don't tell me - you pay or have paid a 'parking ticket' so everyone else should just because you don't have the savvy to consider the unfairness/legality of some situations. doh!

benls

Thanks for your replies.

It's not a PCN and it only has print on one side. The title is 'Notice To Driver of Vehicle Parked On Taxicab Stand' and it's issued by The City of Liverpool as far as I can tell. The address to send to is 'Head of Legal Services, Licensing Section, Room 219, Municipal Buildings, Dale St, Liverpool, L69 2DQ'. The fine is £40 or £20 if paid within 14 days.

In retrospect it may seem obvious that it was a taxi bay (as per the writing on the road) and had it only been a taxi bay I clearly wouldn't have parked there. However, at the time of parking I was confused because there were also pay and display bays. So I checked the meter closely thinking it would provide details of the hours I could and couldn't park there. I didn't see any other signs at the time I parked, mainly because there was only one as I noticed later, and this was facing the road and largely anonymous. I would have expected to see more signs along the road, or at least some indication on the parking meter. Maybe that makes me an idiot for thinking the council or whoever was responsible would be clear about the matter.

Here's a scan of the ticket:



- and the scene:



Like I said, in retrospect it's clearly a taxi bay but the confusion resulted from the fact that it was also a pay and display bay. Additionally, it wasn't just me but three others who understood that we could park there.

Thanks again.

Neil_B

Wow! never seen such a thing.

You're gonna need to take that to PePiPoo for the 'eagles' to see mate.
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Coblcris

Better photographs of the signage are required. They have to compliant under the RTRA 1982. Also see the TSRGD. e.g. there should be a 650.1 diagram to go with that yellow line.
Letter is to the driver, I wonder if the Council has any powers to force that information from the Registered Keeper ? I must admit I am not familiar with that 1976 Act.

Neil_B

he could research and he could ask at PeP. To be honest even with non-compliant signage I can't imagine a Mag being pleased to see you cluttering his Court with that one.

For the sake of £20 as opposed to a likely circa £ 60 - 80 I'd pay it.
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I do see though that there is a possible issue of using what appears to be criminal legislation in an area where decriminalised enforcement is already used. Without checking, I'd guess it's certainly covered somehow - along the lines of plod still able to issue for obstruction.
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sporedude

Neil_B wrote: »

Because he or she is not an idiot like you!

is it a legally marked taxi stand/rank? have you seen it? Would you know anyway?

Is it enforcable legally by merit of being correctly listed in the relevant Traffic Order for the location? Is the signage misleading in some way? is the penalty amount correct (definitely NOT!)

Don't tell me - you pay or have paid a 'parking ticket' so everyone else should just because you don't have the savvy to consider the unfairness/legality of some situations. doh!

Dont think your even worth an insult back to be honest.