Public sector/benefits to be savaged FT article

donaldtramp

StevieJ wrote: »

How are you going to have more of your own money if taxes will be going up to pay for the deficit we already have now or will have soon

I'll have more of my money relatively speaking, compared to the public sector and their benefits and also the benefits brigade when they get their Special Brew money cut.
Is that simple enough for you?

donaldtramp

CLAPTON

Out of interest, what would you consider a 'fair' employer contribution in the public sector?

Hmm, never thought about that. It certainly would be no where near 23%!!
Dunno, to pick a figure 5% plus remove the guarantees from the government. The private sector doesn't get guarantees.

StevieJ

donaldtramp wrote: »

I'll have more of my money relatively speaking, compared to the public sector and their benefits and also the benefits brigade when they get their Special Brew money cut.
Is that simple enough for you?

I get it you don't mind having less disposable income, just so long as it is more than the
public sector workers have got :rotfl:

SingleSue

StevieJ wrote: »

How is it going Sue, not seen you posting much, still got that new bloke in tow?
Up the Aces :beer:
Agree with your point BTW.

Busy doing a law degree so have had my nose stuck in books mostly! That bloke is starting to get on my wick a wee bit, don't like people being disorganised.

Up the Witches! :rotfl:

Generali

The point several posters have missed is that for Civil Servants (not Local Government employees) the employer contribution is GBP0 or 0% if you prefer.

Civil Servants will only receive the pensions for as long as taxpayers are happy to pay for them. As incomes are squeezed by increasing interest bills to pay for the current overspend by the UK Government I suspect that taxpayers will become increasingly reluctant or even unable to pay for everything that the current (and previous) Governments have commited them to.

If it makes you feel any better, the reason why the Civil Service pension liability isn't included in the National Debt is because they don't have to be paid - a future change in the law can remove the liability by not paying the pensions.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

The point several posters have missed is that for Civil Servants (not Local Government employees) the employer contribution is GBP0 or 0% if you prefer.

Civil Servants will only receive the pensions for as long as taxpayers are happy to pay for them. As incomes are squeezed by increasing interest bills to pay for the current overspend by the UK Government I suspect that taxpayers will become increasingly reluctant or even unable to pay for everything that the current (and previous) Governments have commited them to.

If it makes you feel any better, the reason why the Civil Service pension liability isn't included in the National Debt is because they don't have to be paid - a future change in the law can remove the liability by not paying the pensions.

Whilst its true that civil service pensions are unfunded and local government/teachers/NHS are funded, in terms of the resources that future generations of workers need to sacrifice for the benefit of pensioners, it makes no difference.
If future pensioners are going to enjoy any given standard of living then the then current generation of workers must produce (but not consume) the goods and services that pensioner's consume.
Of course the mechanisms are diferent; funded schemes require high profits from companies (and hence lower wages to workers) to pay the funded pension whilst unfunded schemes require higher taxes (and lower take home pay for workers). In either case the workers have to give up the same share of their production to pay.
Funded schemes are just as vunerable to the arbitary political decision as unfunded scheme as Brown raid on pensions shows.

drc

Generali wrote: »

Very few put away enough for their retirement and so rely on the largesse of taxpayers to make up the difference.

That applies to Civil Servants as much as anyone else - they are promised a great pension but their employer isn't putting the money aside. Thus current public employees are relying upon the generosity of future taxpayers to keep prior promises.

It's the same if the average pension is GBP3,800 or GBP380,000 - pleading poverty makes no difference to the range of possible outcomes.

But who is going to want to live and work in the UK if the system doesn't change and the taxpayer is paying out loads in tax for a poor quality of life. Won't people just move abroad if they can? I don't think there is anything that special about the UK that people are going to stick around on a sinking ship to do their bit for the good of the society as a whole. Most people are somewhat altruistic but that takes the biscuit.

Ygor

Generali wrote: »

The point several posters have missed is that for Civil Servants (not Local Government employees) the employer contribution is GBP0 or 0% if you prefer.

Civil service departments make an employer contribution called the Accruing Superannuation Liability Charge. This is a tiered rate but averages 18.9%.

Yes, this is still paid via tax (although places like the DVLA have their own revenue stream). Not much different to private sector pensions being paid for by their customers.

Civil servants are contracted out of the second state pensions. Most defined contribution schemes are contracted in and they pay an extra 5.3% NI. In comparing contribution rates, the extra NI and pension should be taken into consideration.

From an employer's perspective (public and private), it's cheaper for the employer to contribute to a pension. This is because, unlike employee contributions, employer contributions are exempt from NI (both the employee and employer NI charges). This can increase employer contributions by 20%.

If people have high employee contributions, they should press to sacrifice some salary for higher employer contributions.

The Treasury recognises in its pay guidance that the pension is part of earnings when comparing with private sector pay. It's not a nice little extra, it's been earned and salaries are consequently lower.

StevieJ

SingleSue wrote: »

Busy doing a law degree so have had my nose stuck in books mostly! That bloke is starting to get on my wick a wee bit, don't like people being disorganised.

Up the Witches! :rotfl:

Is he still around then? or - acta est fabula

SingleSue

He is hanging on by a thread and I am considering my options.