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Public sector/benefits to be savaged FT article
Comments
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Do you think your other half will still have her public sector job?
Strangely enough, in the interests of improving efficiency and cost saving, her dept's just been reorganised, a process which has involved the use, at some considerable cost, of outside consultants.
Of about 40employees in the dept, 9 (incl my partner) have been given a salary regrade (upgrade) - with 6 years backpay and an increase in pension entitlement. 2 have opted for early retirement and the rest have stayed on exactly same terms as before (some after sucessful appeals).
From a personal point of view it's been financially very beneficial but I still think the whole system is crazy, phenominally expensive and totally unsustainable in the long term. The LA has justified the cost (consultants, backpay, ongoing wages, pensions....blah, blah, blah) as 'it's been provided for in previous years reserves" ie council tax has been previously inflated as a contingency for this anticipated excess.
Presumably services offered in previous years were'nt commensurate with the level of council tax charged for.
Will she still be there in a few years - dunno. As her job involves "delivering Government initiatives" (whatever that means) probably not - but I'm sure LA will have some lavish redundancy packages in place (probably including enhanced pension accruals !!)0 -
The money's being used for public services. It's not being saved, it's being invested in the goverment , not unlike an offset mortgage. Private sector pension funds also invest in the government via gilts. They are more secure than shares and bonds.
If money was set aside, we'd all pay more tax (or receive less services) in order to get the money to set aside. That extra money's got to come from somewhere.
I can see the point in private sector firms needing a pension fund to be set aside in case the firm goes bust. The fund can still pay the firm's pensioners.
The government can rely on being there in the future so needs no fund. State pensions work on the same principle.
Civil Service pension scheme doesn't need to be funded and the liability is accounted for
Can't post a link but google for "civil service resource accounts"
What you say is true about taxes and pension accruals. All it really means (as with all borrowing) is that tomorrow's money is being spent today. By not accruing a fund to pay Civil Service pensions, people are consuming Government services today and expecting their children to pay a large part of the wage bill.
I have serious doubts as to whether the kids are going to be that interested in paying for today's Civil Servant's pensions.0 -
What you say is true about taxes and pension accruals. All it really means (as with all borrowing) is that tomorrow's money is being spent today. By not accruing a fund to pay Civil Service pensions, people are consuming Government services today and expecting their children to pay a large part of the wage bill.
I have serious doubts as to whether the kids are going to be that interested in paying for today's Civil Servant's pensions.
I've already explained that the 'kids' will 'pay' for all pensions whether funded or funded and whether in the private or public sector... either by high taxation or by high company profits. there is no other way.
Also of course all these kids benefit from all the investment their parent built up for them (try comparing UK with Africa )0 -
Where did you get the 23% figure from?
Just to clarify, for anyone on here who might imagine from donaldtramp's posts that 23% is somhow the norm, it isn't; nor is the 7% figure he quotes.
Pension contributions vary depending on the nature of the public sector job and when the individual joined and what pension scheme they chose - most pay in at least this themselves, but do NOT get anywhere near 23% employee contributions.
Someone, somewhere, may do, but to suggest this is across the board is highly misleading.
To agree with the last poster, 2 equivalently qualified people I know, both working in management, one private, one public.
The private sector one is responsible for about £2m and manages 1 person; salary c 80K, bonus 8K this year. The public sector 1, manages several hundred million pounds of public funds and team of 8; salary 50K, bonus maybe 1K.
Curiously, the private sector 1 works for Shell, so if Stevie's figures are correct, then their pension is equivalent or better too!
Basically, if you cease to pay the people in charge of hundreds of millions of pounds of public fnds a reasonable wage and pension, you will get either corruption, or only the real dross left, who will waste many, many times their salaries AND pensions in utter incompetence.
You get what you pay for.
Yes exactly.
One notices the FT has been remarkably silent on the billions of pounds of corporate welfare doled out to the private sector by the way.
These threads foaming at the mouth with righteous indignation (always 4 parts indignation to 1 part righteousness) about the public sector tick me off. Theyre usually full of uninformed bo11ocks for a start.
Its interesting to know I receive a 23% non contributory on my pension. I receive nothing like that and must be due a rebate. Unlike my friend who works in the City and still receives 12% per annum non contributory and an 11% bonus for doing a similar job (we both bring investment into the UK).
Utter tosh.0 -
I've already explained that the 'kids' will 'pay' for all pensions whether funded or funded and whether in the private or public sector... either by high taxation or by high company profits. there is no other way.
Also of course all these kids benefit from all the investment their parent built up for them (try comparing UK with Africa )
And with falling birthrates and and ageing population how do you think this is sustainable?
'Kids' will have to pay an every increasing amount towards pensions, money that could be spent on those 'kids' health (NHS)/ Transport/ policing etc.
It is just not sustainable.0 -
And with falling birthrates and and ageing population how do you think this is sustainable?
'Kids' will have to pay an every increasing amount towards pensions, money that could be spent on those 'kids' health (NHS)/ Transport/ policing etc.
It is just not sustainable.
I'm not sure what you are saying isn't sustainable... that pensioners of all types can't have a reasonable standard of living or what?
There will clearly be a problem about the distribution of income between pensioners and workers but I fail to see by it will be momumentous problem. ... if there is a genuine shortage of workers then employers will be willing to employ older people (many currently in their 50 and 60 are quite willing to work but there are no jobs).
Observation would seem to show that countries with the biggest birth rates don't necessarily have the richest pensioners.0 -
I'm not sure what you are saying isn't sustainable... that pensioners of all types can't have a reasonable standard of living or what?
I'm saying that unfunded pension liabilities are unsustainable.There will clearly be a problem about the distribution of income between pensioners and workers but I fail to see by it will be momumentous problem. ... if there is a genuine shortage of workers then employers will be willing to employ older people (many currently in their 50 and 60 are quite willing to work but there are no jobs).
If there is a shortage then I suspect it will be filled by immigrants rather that older people. The rising pension burden will increase the burden on the young and working; meaning that the level of public services they receive falls quite significantly.Observation would seem to show that countries with the biggest birth rates don't necessarily have the richest pensioners.
No coincidence that the countries with the highest birth rates are some of the poorest countries in the world...0 -
Old_Slaphead wrote: »Strangely enough, in the interests of improving efficiency and cost saving, her dept's just been reorganised, a process which has involved the use, at some considerable cost, of outside consultants.
Of about 40employees in the dept, 9 (incl my partner) have been given a salary regrade (upgrade) - with 6 years backpay and an increase in pension entitlement. 2 have opted for early retirement and the rest have stayed on exactly same terms as before (some after sucessful appeals).
From a personal point of view it's been financially very beneficial but I still think the whole system is crazy, phenominally expensive and totally unsustainable in the long term. The LA has justified the cost (consultants, backpay, ongoing wages, pensions....blah, blah, blah) as 'it's been provided for in previous years reserves" ie council tax has been previously inflated as a contingency for this anticipated excess.
Presumably services offered in previous years were'nt commensurate with the level of council tax charged for.
Will she still be there in a few years - dunno. As her job involves "delivering Government initiatives" (whatever that means) probably not - but I'm sure LA will have some lavish redundancy packages in place (probably including enhanced pension accruals !!)
Out of interest, does your OH regard her job as a waste of space and taxpayer's money?
How does she get out of bed in the morning? Why does she not switch jobs? How do you respect her?
Or are you both just happy to parasite off the state and stay shtum?
If I thought that about my job or my partner's job, I'd do something about it.
I just don't get where you're coming from.0 -
I've already explained that the 'kids' will 'pay' for all pensions whether funded or funded and whether in the private or public sector... either by high taxation or by high company profits. there is no other way.
Also of course all these kids benefit from all the investment their parent built up for them (try comparing UK with Africa )
Would you explain how, other than the OAP, kids of today will be contributing to my private pension?
Every single penny, apart from tax rebated (which will be paid back again when I draw the pension) has been of my own contribution. There are many many people out here in private sector land that get no employer contribution.....many of us are simply thankful just to have a job.
Regarding your 'kids will pay' explanation - don't forget the kids will be expected to pay for high public sector pensions AND their investment in their own kids education etc. At least my generation will not be expected to subsidise the massive underfunded/unfunded liabilities of the public sector and other government borrowings.0 -
Out of interest, does your OH regard her job as a waste of space and taxpayer's money?
How does she get out of bed in the morning? Why does she not switch jobs? How do you respect her?
Or are you both just happy to parasite off the state and stay shtum?
If I thought that about my job or my partner's job, I'd do something about it.
I just don't get where you're coming from.
She loves here job and is fantastic at it and I'm proud of her - I'm not sure where you're coming from in your posting, perhaps you could explain?0
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