Public sector/benefits to be savaged FT article

ukcarper

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

Got to agree with everything the above have said

We're knackered because nu-labour didn't put anything away for a rainy day, didn't fix the leaky roof while the sun was shining and built a house of straw while they should have been building one from bricks. etc. etc.

How would the Tories put away money for a rainy day while matching labour spending planes and cutting tax.

mvengemvenge

Wookster wrote: »

Welfare spending comes to £190Bn of the government's £670bn budget. That's about 30%.

Our welfare system is desperately broken and needs repair. As I see it, there is something desperately wrong with being able to claim welfare for your entire life, doing nothing in return for the good of the community/ state.

Interesting dilemma...

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your post, are all the BTL LL's on here going to step forward and state they will in NO WAY accept any Housing Benefit payments for unemployed tenants, that they'd rather go without rental income than support scroungers?

I think not.

Unfortunately, we are all more interconnected than people are willing to admit. I think the largest component of benefits is Housing Benefit, mostly going to private landlords. Everyone wants to get tough on benefits till it affects them. Suddenly, they see it differently. It's true that there is (some) overmanning in the public sector, but if you look on the benefit boards, you'll see that job centres have been closed and people can't get money due to them because staff have been cut back so much. You may say "tough" until you have a relative who's got children and had no money for 5 weeks.

The 'benefits bill' is not the black and white issue that people try to portray it as.

Spiv_2

Pounds up, FTSEs up - the market's don't seem terribly worried about the deficit. Love Martin Wolf but he has to fill column inches with something:cool:

donaldtramp

geoffky wrote: »

When will people get it. that the social security bill is the price we have to pay to keep the unemployable from causing social unrest and massive crime problems..If we cut it expect them to come knocking and wanting a share of our wealth.

I agree with the sentiment but Labour's transformation of this underclass through providing easy money with no strings attached(transferring people to incapacity etc which positively encourages people not to work) has massively increased the dependence on benefits.
A work ethic needs to be installed instead of being "fair"(Clowns word) and giving this underclass an expectation that they are "entitled" to everything and the state will provide.
A stigma needs to be attached to living off the backs of other people for a large proportion of their lives. (all of their lives sometimes!)

The benefits system was designed as a safety net NOT a lifestyle choice.
30% of the nations entire money wealth spent on social welfare!!! Are they having a laugh? And thats EVERY YEAR. The bank bailout was a one off.
I won't be sorry to see them being squeezed, why should I?
AND Like it or not it's gonna happen!

Wookster

marklv wrote: »

Actually, a single person with no children can only claim £60 a week in dole - one of the lowest rates in the Western world. It's the people (chavs) who have loads of kids who get showered with taxpayer money and large detached council houses in which to house their horrible brats.

The worst part of that is that those kids have f.uck all chance at moving out of the poverty into which they are born.

Some people think that not only is it a god given right to have children, but that it ok do to it and expect someone else to pick up the tab.

I'm not so sure about that.

JACKBLACK

donaldtramp wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment but Labour's transformation of this underclass through providing easy money with no strings attached(transferring people to incapacity etc which positively encourages people not to work) has massively increased the dependence on benefits.
A work ethic needs to be installed instead of being "fair"(Clowns word) and giving this underclass an expectation that they are "entitled" to everything and the state will provide.
A stigma needs to be attached to living off the backs of other people for a large proportion of their lives. (all of their lives sometimes!)

The benefits system was designed as a safety net NOT a lifestyle choice.
30% of the nations entire money wealth spent on social welfare!!! Are they having a laugh? And thats EVERY YEAR. The bank bailout was a one off.
I won't be sorry to see them being squeezed, why should I?
AND Like it or not it's gonna happen!

What about all the people who haven't been paying enough tax for years? Don't we have to wean them back to paying tax? If you get cash in hand you can just stick it in your pocket. If you are self-employed you can avoid-evade paying tons of tax. Why should they get "easy money with no strings attached" Why are you picking on people on incapacity benefits when there are much bigger fish to fry?.

"A work ethic needs to be installed instead of being "fair"(Clowns word) and giving this underclass an expectation that they are "entitled" to everything and the state will provide." Yeh but what about all the working people who are tax dodgers?

"A stigma needs to be attached to living off the backs of other people for a large proportion of their lives. (all of their lives sometimes!)" Too true - this applies to tons of working class, middle class and rich people too! They are called tax dodgers and we need to stigmatize their antics.

"The benefits system was designed as a safety net NOT a lifestyle choice.
30% of the nations entire money wealth spent on social welfare!!! Are they having a laugh? And thats EVERY YEAR." The Tax sysytem is designed so that only people who pay PAYE actually pay tax. And that's EVERY YEAR.

"The bank bailout was a one off.
I won't be sorry to see them being squeezed, why should I?
AND Like it or not it's gonna happen!" Jeeze you're darn right - I won't be sorry to see them tax-avoiding people squeezed either. Why should I? And like it or not it's gonna happen!

Do you know that in China avoiding taxes is punishable by death?

StevieJ

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

Got to agree with everything the above have said

We're knackered because nu-labour didn't put anything away for a rainy day, didn't fix the leaky roof while the sun was shining and built a house of straw while they should have been building one from bricks. etc. etc.

What a masterly use of cliche to take the p_ss, :T
Pardon! you really meant it :eek:

JACKBLACK

Generali wrote: »

- The Tories wouldn't have bloated the state in the way Labour has. They have never done so before so it's hard to see why they would have this time.

Margaret Thatcher's monetarist policies led to the UK losing 6% of GDP - nothing bloated about that for sure. Nothing bloated about Company Earnings either - they fell 35% under Thatcher's government. Maybe you meant the bloated unemployment figures? Up 124% from 5.3% to 11.9%. Under Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government it took 13 qtrs for GDP to recover to what it was at the start of the 1980s.

So what about the early 90's Conservative Governments? 25% fall in Company Earnings - nothing bloated about that! 55% increase in unemployment from 6.9% to 11.7%. Again took 13 qtrs for GDP to recover. Oh wait - peak budget deficit - 8% of GDP - now that looks pretty bloated.

SingleSue

Can we just remember that not all benefit claimants are claiming as a lifestyle choice. Not all benefit claimants had children whilst on benefits to gain extra money. Not all benefit claimants are workshy but may be claiming due to adversity in their lives (recent job loss, care duties, significant illness making work currently impossible).

I do admit there are those who take the pee, who will deliberately make their case seem worse so as to gain benefits etc but there are also people using the safety net as it was intended.

In short, can we please not stereotype and call everyone who claims scum or workshy.

donaldtramp

JACKBLACK wrote: »

What about all the people who haven't been paying enough tax for years? Don't we have to wean them back to paying tax? If you get cash in hand you can just stick it in your pocket. If you are self-employed you can avoid-evade paying tons of tax. Why should they get "easy money with no strings attached" Why are you picking on people on incapacity benefits when there are much bigger fish to fry?.

"A work ethic needs to be installed instead of being "fair"(Clowns word) and giving this underclass an expectation that they are "entitled" to everything and the state will provide." Yeh but what about all the working people who are tax dodgers?

"A stigma needs to be attached to living off the backs of other people for a large proportion of their lives. (all of their lives sometimes!)" Too true - this applies to tons of working class, middle class and rich people too! They are called tax dodgers and we need to stigmatize their antics.

"The benefits system was designed as a safety net NOT a lifestyle choice.
30% of the nations entire money wealth spent on social welfare!!! Are they having a laugh? And thats EVERY YEAR." The Tax sysytem is designed so that only people who pay PAYE actually pay tax. And that's EVERY YEAR.

"The bank bailout was a one off.
I won't be sorry to see them being squeezed, why should I?
AND Like it or not it's gonna happen!" Jeeze you're darn right - I won't be sorry to see them tax-avoiding people squeezed either. Why should I? And like it or not it's gonna happen!

Do you know that in China avoiding taxes is punishable by death?

Whatever....

Why are you picking on people on incapacity benefits when there are much bigger fish to fry?.

Bigger fish to fry??? ONE THIRD of our entire money spent on social security!
I think that is by far the biggest fish to fry.

Too true - this applies to tons of working class, middle class and rich people too! They are called tax dodgers and we need to stigmatize their antics.

Yup Labours philosophy in a nutshell. TAX TAX TAX and then some more TAX.
Look where that has got us eh? The tax take under Labour has increased massively
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/feb/04/tax.householdbills

Where has that got us eh? Take from the hard working to prop up the underclass and expand it. Typical Labour antics and they NEVER work. Eventually companies and businesses buckle under the pressure. This leads to the situation we are in now.
Eventually the tax take exoands to such an extent that the social benefits can no longer be paid. Job losses increase due to the pressure on companies and the whole system collapses. EXACTLY what we are seeing now. Wonderful tax policy, thanks Clown.

Jeeze you're darn right - I won't be sorry to see them tax-avoiding people squeezed either. Why should I? And like it or not it's gonna happen!

Tax avoidance! Under Labour the tax burden has increased massively. What did we receive in return? A bloated public sector with ridiculous benefits and a massively expanded underclass. Wonderful management of the economy Clown. Just marvellous!!

Do you know that in China avoiding taxes is punishable by death?

The way our rights are going as far as civil liberties and big brother government control we are being subjected to is going I'm sure Clown will have that on his check list.
Clown and his party must go and the sooner the better.