Halifax -1.7% MoM, 17.7% YoY, 22.6% down from peak.

whathavewedone

Permanently??? Oh leave off. People who bought at the height of the 80s boom and then lost money in the 90s crashes and this crash will still be better off than when they bought at the height of the 80s boom.

Property is a long term investment. I plan to stay in my house for at least another 20 years. I expect to see another boom and another bust in that time. I am old enough to recall the last two recessions and to realise that life goes on. Yes this one is really bad but it will end like the others and the economic cycles will continue just as before.

Martin Lewis was on the radio last week saying that when he was saying in 2007 that there would be another property crash at some point he was accused of scaremongering. He said that now he is saying that the recession will end (officially) by 2010 he is accused of "ramping" and disbelieved. What he said was that during a boom most people can't imagine things getting worse and equally during a recession most people can't imagine things getting better.

We are slap bang in the middle of a recession. Logically the only way is up at some point. Those who think it will get worse and worse and worse until you can buy a house with a credit card (Dopester) are the new sheeple imho. You know, the ones who in 2006 and 2007 thought that house prices would keep on going up and up and up and then have a little period of flattening before going up again...

Notice any similarities here?

ess0two

chupov wrote: »

back from the races already Stevie? how did it go?

Wrong again............but i'm going to Chester tomorrow.

Will be having breakfast in BHS about 9.45am,then starting off in the Shropshire arms bout 11am,a gentle meander to the course.
Taking in the Dublin packet and a few others before arriving at the Custom house for last pint.

Feel free to join me for a pint,just ask for Dave will be in a group of 5,i'm 6'2 medium build.

penguine

whathavewedone wrote: »

We are slap bang in the middle of a recession. Logically the only way is up at some point.

I think it's more likely that we're at the beginning of a recession, not slap bang in the middle of it yet. And that although logically it will go up again at some point, that won't be for quite awhile yet.

whathavewedone

Lostinrates, I must confess that I don't know how the whole security of tenure thing works in other parts of Europe I just know about the Rent Acts from working as a property litigator.

I have had a lot experience of trying to get sub-letting, non resident tenants out and I can tell you it is unbelievably difficult. One son of a woman who had been in an old folks home denied subletting and we couldn't prove this although we had a witness who said he had charged her rent and then changed the locks and chucked her out on the street when we were on to it. Why couldn't we prove it? Because she couldn't produce a formal tenancy agreement. We could prove he wasn't living there and obviously his mother wasn't living there (she was in an old people's home) but that was okay because he had left furniture there (demonstrating an intention to return) and he said that his mother intended to return "to die at home in accordance with Asian culture". This was accepted despite the fact that medical evidence showed she was completely senile. The cost of this lost case ran into the thousands. Fortunately the client was a big property company but imagine if it was an individual who needed the house back because of financial difficulty?

One tenant blatantly kept his flat in Paddington as a pied de terre, not paying rent for a year and not responding to correspondence and then applying for a stay of execution the day before the bailiffs were due to attend and paying all the arrears, interest and costs in cash. He did this every single year.

A very expensive way to run your affairs but then the rent was very cheap for a flat of that calibre in Paddington. He was a complete headache for the landlord as he just would not pay his rent until we got an order for possession (a far lengthier process for these sorts of tenancies than for ASTS). Again, this was a professional landlord who could afford to pay the ongoing legal fees but what if it was an individual?

I would support a scheme where longer term rental agreements were available. However the tenants would have to pay a market rent, there would be no succession rights, no right to leave the property unoccupied and the landlord would be entitled to have the property back within a reasonable period if he could prove to the court that he needed the property back for family/financial rasons.

whathavewedone

Exactly. You "think" we are just at the start. Martin Lewis thinks we are not that far off the end - officially anyway - we all (well those of us who are old enough to have experienced previous recessions) know that things will be a bit rubbish and unemployment will continue to rise for a good couple of years after we are officially out of recession.

I seem to recall that Martin thinks we will be officially out of recession by the end of this year. I am a bit more pessimistic, I think it will be next year - that is still a very long official recession. Sorry but I don't think we will still officially be in recession in 2011/2012. I do think we will still be feeling the aftershocks of it though - I expect the country to still be in recession mindset until about 2015.

lostinrates

whathavewedone wrote: »

I have had a lot experience ............
I would support a scheme where longer term rental agreements were available. However the tenants would have to pay a market rent, there would be no succession rights, no right to leave the property unoccupied and the landlord would be entitled to have the property back within a reasonable period if he could prove to the court that he needed the property back for family/financial rasons.

I think its obvious that if how it was doesn't work, and if it didn't stay it didn't work, you don't repeat the same mistyake again, but neither should we throw the baby out with the bathwater!

The fact is that, to some degree, it does work in other places, and while its not everything in law I'd look to europe for example,(lir shudders)this really might be one of them: taking the best of those systems. Because, our current system is flawed too. Its inevitably a tough balance to get right, and while I don't think bad tenants should benefit I think the balance towards long term tenants does need redress.



You're experiences are very interesting, thank you for sharing them.:)

whathavewedone

I'd be interested to know what the system is in other parts of Europe. If anyone knows I'd be interested if they could let us know. It may be that it's very similar to the Rent Acts but works there because culturally they have a different view to owning than we do here.

I agree that it could be that longer term tenancies could perhaps work if we learn from the mistakes made in the Rent Acts that meant it was open to abuse.

StevieJ

ess0two wrote: »

Wrong again............but i'm going to Chester tomorrow.

Will be having breakfast in BHS about 9.45am,then starting off in the Shropshire arms bout 11am,a gentle meander to the course.
Taking in the Dublin packet and a few others before arriving at the Custom house for last pint.

Feel free to join me for a pint,just ask for Dave will be in a group of 5,i'm 6'2 medium build.

Back now, some history lessons Show respect

Dublin Packet - previously managed by an all time Everton great - Dixie Dean
Dublin Packet - Just a possibility - May have been the the venue for the completion of and practise ofThe Messiah (Handel) strange and maybe true.


I know the Cussie well, but Bar Lounge is the best bar I have ever been into, but they don't let Riff Raff types like Wookie and Devon in there

StevieJ

chupov wrote: »

back from the races already Stevie? how did it go?

Back from the races at 6 pm, :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: who is this D.head I expect Sockies to have
a certain level of intelligence, obviously expectation well misplaced

StevieJ

penguine wrote: »

I think it's more likely that we're at the beginning of a recession, not slap bang in the middle of it yet. And that although logically it will go up again at some point, that won't be for quite awhile yet.

Why , you have obviously got access to info. that I have not seen, please entlighten me.