Fence - Problem neighbours: advice, please?

Suzkin

Hi All,

I've received a reply from Garden Law website (Thanks, JohnHowell!) as per above: Been advised to send them a solicitors letter etc. as I have every right. Will write to them first (and copy to owners, Lettings Agents as well), instructing them to remove the soil along the side of the fence by a given date - and then see what happens...

Thanks everyone for your replies.

27col

robnye wrote: »

wrong by putting the fence on your land, just means you are then responsible for its maintenance...... it does not give the neighbours any rights to claim the middle strip of land as their own...... which is what the OP is talking about

I do not want to get into a tiff and I think that we were both thinking along the same lines. Surely it all depends on how wide the strip is, that was left. If it was very narrow, how would the op get to it. It would have to be wide enough to be able to walk along and to work from, without going onto next doors ground. If there were no old posts or wire etc, as a reference, then how would the op or anyone else be able to know which ground was who's. I would think that everyone's instinct is to assume that the fence is the boundary when doing work in the garden.

Mojisola

27col wrote: »

I would think that everyone's instinct is to assume that the fence is the boundary when doing work in the garden.

This is certainly how most people would look at it - but it doesn't give you the right to use next door's fence as a retaining wall for the soil in your raised beds.

vegasvisitor

I'm not exactly sure what the law is on this (England presumably). I am thinking that in Scots law if you do something for 10 years on land you're entitled to continue. I think that may apply if you encroach too.

I too would assume the fence to be the boundary. However, I would think they don't have any right to do anything 'damaging' to the boundary and it sounds like putting soil up higher than the level it was previously would damage it.

It does sound like the relationship has already gone with the neighbours, but it also doesn't sound like they will listen either, so I'm really not sure what to advise.

Could you maybe try citizen's advice? Still don't know the size of the gap, but if it's about a foot, you might consider getting a lawyers letter telling them to move their veg patch off your land?

Hope you get it sorted out some how.

BuddyBonthenet

I'm going to say something slightly different based on my own understanding.

We also put up a nice fence between us and the house next door. The boundary was her responsibility according to the plans/deeds for the properties.

We did this for three reasons -
a. At the time an old lady lived there and she couldn't afford to replace it
b. We wanted more privacy
c. We wanted a nicer fence

We assembled the fence so that it would be easy to unscrew each one to paint both sides if necessary.

The old lady has died since and our new neighbours are aware that we paid for the fence and have since painted their side a different colour which is fine by us. Our impression is that they think it is our responsibility to generally maintain the fence which is fine at the moment, but we are not planning on paying the next time it needs replacing. We are aware that at any time our neighbours can replace it with a fence of their choice if they choose and I guess they might have to give us back 'our fence' if that ever happened. They are not the kind of people who would do something to damage the fence, but that's not to say that couldn't change in the future.

Personally I think the OP has been quite provocative by building the new fence on 'their' land and it is not surprising this has now caused friction between them and their neighbours. I think it was a big assumption that their neighbours would allow them on to their property to maintain the other side of the fence especially if it took three years of discussion to get the fence erected.

I were the neighbour I would think the fence was the boundary of the garden and if it was pointed out to me that my vegetable patch could damage the fence, then given the history between the two households I might just have had the same attitude.

If I were the OP I'd go around to the neighbours and say something along the lines of "Look I really don't want to fall out about this and wondered if we could have a chat about the situation?" Even if it meant acting as if I regretted my previous behaviour and going cap in hand, if it meant we could come to an amicable solution and built some bridges then I'd do it (i.e. a Softly, softly, catchee monkey approach). I'd certainly try that before thinking about sending solicitors letters.

macman

Could the OP advise how big the distance is between the neighbours side of the fence and the actual boundary line?
It seems to me that he/she is entitled to do what he/she wants up to that line, including removing any earth that has been deposited there. though it would be polite to inform the neigbours of his/her intentions.
Though I can understand that most people would make the reasonable assumption that the fence line was the actual boundary line.

WobblyGoblin

macman wrote: »

Could the OP advise how big the distance is between the neighbours side of the fence and the actual boundary line?
It seems to me that he/she is entitled to do what he/she wants up to that line, including removing any earth that has been deposited there. though it would be polite to inform the neigbours of his/her intentions.
Though I can understand that most people would make the reasonable assumption that the fence line was the actual boundary line.

I think this is the key question. If we are talking millimeters then I can see how they would assume the fence was the boundary. I can also see them not being aware that soil would damage the fence (or not caring as they are only renting).

If we are talking a foot or so then that is a different matter and they seem to be definitely taking the mickey.

It sounds like you have already tried speaking to them on this. If there is a big enough gap (i.e. a foot or so) then I would have thought you would be in your rights to remove the soil from that portion and deposit it back on their land. It would probably also be worth sticking in a simple wire boundary at the same time. A few problems with this approach though:

1) A lot of work for you
2) Their soil would keep falling into your area unless/until they did something about it
3) This would be bound to escalate any bad feelings ten-fold

If you were going to do that (and have written-off the relationship with the neighbours) I would write them a letter setting out your concerns and intentions, and giving them the opportunity to correct it themselves by a certain date.

If there is no room for you to do anything from your land then I think you would need to get solicitors involved. That's going to be expensive and also aggravate the situation.

If you genuinely think that all diplomatic attempts have failed then the overriding question is whether you are ready to go to war with the neighbours over this (with the time, stress and money involved). Again, that probably comes down to the size of the strip of land we're talking about.

olias

To the OP, one thing to be aware of in all this is that problems with neighbours, especially if solicitors become involved, have to by law be disclosed to any potential purchaser when you come to sell.

I had a situation with a previous neighbour which didn't even involve solicitors. Buyers of my property were informed (as my solicitor was legally obliged to), and they pulled out of the purchase. All in all cost me about £10000 in wasted legal fees/finding a new buyer (ongoing mortgage costs) and having to accept a lower offer from a subsequent buyer:mad:

I think your best bet would be as stated, to replace gravel boards with concrete ones. If this is not possible financially, then take out panels and boards and thoroughly soak in wood preservative (do posts as well), then re erect. It won't stop the wood rotting eventually, but will go some way to delaying the process. In fact in doing this, you could also (without having to access your neighbours land) replace the gravel boards and lean over them to dig a trench between the gravel board and boandry line and fill with gravel. Then replace the panels.

Result is you have a fully preserved fence, a gravel filled trench abutting the gravel boards and posts, and you have not had to speak to the neighbours or go onto their land.

I know you will probably think this is a lot of extra work and why should you have to, etc. But in the long run it will solve the problem for the sake of a few days work. You said yourself that it has taken you three years and you have got nowhere with the neighbours

Olias

BuddyBonthenet

olias wrote: »

To the OP, one thing to be aware of in all this is that problems with neighbours, especially if solicitors become involved, have to by law be disclosed to any potential purchaser when you come to sell.

I had a situation with a previous neighbour which didn't even involve solicitors. Buyers of my property were informed (as my solicitor was legally obliged to), and they pulled out of the purchase. All in all cost me about £10000 in wasted legal fees/finding a new buyer (ongoing mortgage costs) and having to accept a lower offer from a subsequent buyer:mad:

I think your best bet would be as stated, to replace gravel boards with concrete ones. If this is not possible financially, then take out panels and boards and thoroughly soak in wood preservative (do posts as well), then re erect. It won't stop the wood rotting eventually, but will go some way to delaying the process. In fact in doing this, you could also (without having to access your neighbours land) replace the gravel boards and lean over them to dig a trench between the gravel board and boandry line and fill with gravel. Then replace the panels.

Result is you have a fully preserved fence, a gravel filled trench abutting the gravel boards and posts, and you have not had to speak to the neighbours or go onto their land.

I know you will probably think this is a lot of extra work and why should you have to, etc. But in the long run it will solve the problem for the sake of a few days work. You said yourself that it has taken you three years and you have got nowhere with the neighbours

Olias

I think this is a great post with the most sensible way forward for the OP.