out of order meter PCN issued for non display

Neil_B

Ah! seems i misunderstood your post to mean he deserved a PCN. (there were quite a few pious numpties around here a couple of months ago, lol) Apologies.

loadsalaughs

I got a Notice to Owner today regarding the above PCN. My original appeal was apparently not received by them in spite of the fact that I have an email from them confirming that they have recieved the appeal. I phoned them and was told to appeal again, including a copy of the original email confirmation which showed all of the details of my original claim.
I asked if I would have to pay the higher or half price if it was rejected and was told "probably" thay would allow me to pay the £40 even though the 14 days have passed.
They really do have a condecending tone. Their machine breaks, their computer dosnt forward the appeal. and they make it sound as though its my fault I havnt paid on time..... VV frustrating.

Will keep you updated on the progress.

Neil_B

That can be a technical win. Do not phone again. Did you get name and record time of that call?

there is no statutory requirement for them to respond to your informal challenge. They appear, however, to have described something more than that.

THERE IS a requirement to 'consider' your informal challenge. If they fail to do so I believe that is quite serious.

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Action.

Repeat your appeal, this time as a formal representation. Here is where we get clever. Change it from the informal version. Add something, change the wording, etc.

Then specifically add on 'procedural impropriety'.
''It appears my informal challenge has not been considered as is required by the relevant legislation. (refer to any info disclosed in the phone call here). If that is not the case then kindly advise the name of the officer who 'considered' my challenge, when this occurred, how and where it was recorded in case history and details of their training and qualifications to be performing such an important role.
Further advise why that officer felt it unnecessary to advise me of his/her findings on the matter as, although not a statutory requirement, it is normal courtesy to do so.''

will that do??? LOL !!!

TheBogsDollocks

Excellent NB.......let them dig their own grave...I do like it.

Neil_B

well i hope he/she follows it or includes it and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES sends a copy of the original informal challenge. Send ONLY a copy of the acknowledgement.

If they had a computer or e-mail problem then tough but DON'T speculate - let them explain!

loadsalaughs

Thankyou Niel B for your advice.

Am I understanding this correctly? The fact that the customer services(I do have his name and the approximate time of the call) told me that they didn't receive my informal appeal tells us that they didn't consider my appeal. But the email I have from them with a reference number on it is proof that I did make an appeal. So they can't argue that they didn't recieve my informal appeal because I have an email as proof?

Therefore your advice is that I ask them to prove to me that they did consider my appeal that I can prove they received. Of course they wont be able to prove that because they claim that they didn't get it which the customer services guy already told me.

In that case if they refuse to cancel the PCN and I take it to the next level of adjudication they will be guilty of not following the proper procedure of at least considering my informal appeal which I can prove they recieved, thereby risking much egg on their face?

Have I understood your reasoning?

loadsalaughs

Oh... I just saw your second post Neil B. The problem is that the email they sent me has the full details of my appeal including all of the text of my appeal. So perhaps it might be better for me to mention the reference number only and the fact I have an email when I ask them to tell me who it was that considered my appeal.... Am I understanding this right?

loadsalaughs

one additional fact. tha guy at customer services told me that he was going to make a note on my file that I had phoned and that he had advised me that they had not received my informal appeal and for me to appeal again. is that good or bad?

Thanks again for all your kind help. you are a rare sort.

Neil_B

in order of your posts it's

YES

YES

and - hmmm, fairly irrelevant.

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you've got the idea. It is quite a serious procedural impropriety to not consider your informal challenge. i'll try and find time to link to the legislation for you. Technically, enough to win on its own. There is no guarantee though and expect a rejection at even formal stage (oh we get so used to this daft game!). Then when you apply to Adjudicator they most likely pull out after wasting your time.

No guarantees though. It is still important that you include all other aspects, but just in different wording maybe? 'Bogs'' comments about machine distances and anything else are all relevant because although you call me a rare sort I can tell you he is a very knowledgable 'diamond' himself.

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loadsalaughs

I just found this interesting fact while following up Bogs' advice. Its on the official document from camden council about how to avoid PCN's

"If we receive informal representations within 14 days beginning with the date on which the notice is
served, and decide not to cancel the PCN, we will allow a further 14 days from the date on which we

make our decision, for payment to be made at the 50% reduced rate."

According to that they are saying that they should advise me if the informal appeal is rejected in order to give me 14 days to pay at the reduced rate.