Ownership certificate for planning permission - advice please

katkim

Hi

I need advice on the 'ownership certificate'. I hope someone can help!

I have new build top floor flat. Unfortunately, I've recieved a letter from the council saying the dormers were built higher than the approved planning permission. After talking with the enforcement officer, I'm applying for retrospective consent (even though he thinks it will be refused)

As part of the process I needed to notify the owners of the other 55 flats in the building and provide their names/addresses on the application form. However, the management company wouldn't release the names because of security/privacy reasons because of property/identity fraud(understandable). So I rang the council and asked further advice. I had been planning on addressing a letter 'to owner/occupier' and popping each one through the letterbox, but I noticed that the application form specically asks me to provide names of those notified.

Since I couldn't get hold of the names, the planning officer told me to fill in the section which explained I took reasonable steps to find out who the owners were, couldn't and serve notice through an ad in the local paper - which I did.

Now I'm being told they won't accept my application. When I rang the council and spoke to another planner they said that asking the management agency for names and simply accepting their refusal to give them to me wasn't classified as 'all reasonable steps' and I should get the management agency to notify all the other owners on my behalf and get a signed letter from them saying they have. When I asked about the previous advice about the ad they just said the other officer was incorrect, so it looks like I've just wasted £250 :mad:

I'm not sure it's 'reasonble' but I'll ask the management agency to contact the other owners on my behalf. I 99% sure I'll be told to go away, though, since it's not their job and they aren't the most helpful, friendly bunch. The council weren't very clear what will would happen if this does happen. Will I be in planning limbo?

Has anyone else submitted an planning appliation for a flat and been in the position when they don't know all the other owners? What did you do for the 'ownership certificate'? Am I going to have to knock on all the doors, introduce myself, explain the situation and ask for names! Don't really fancy doing that 55 times! :eek:

This is such a mess. Any advice appreciated

...I won't even go into the palaver with the conveyancing solicitor for not checking compliance with the approved drawings or discharge of conditions, and assuming that all was in order :wall: Get it double checked, folks!

Poppy9

Can't you yourself just write a letter to each resident in the flat or can you just put up notices in lobby areas?

Else you could look on the electoral roll for each person's name.

Are you sueing your solicitor. I'm sure there was a similar thread on here last year. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it

katkim

Poppy9 wrote: »

Can't you yourself just write a letter to each resident in the flat or can you just put up notices in lobby areas?

Else you could look on the electoral roll for each person's name.

Are you sueing your solicitor. I'm sure there was a similar thread on here last year. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it

I have to include the names and addresses of each owner on the application form, so I think I have to notify them individually rather than a notice in the lobby. I'm kind of resigned to knocking on doors, but wishfully thinking that someone knows of another way, especially since there are so many of them.

The electoral roll sounds like a good idea, I'm sure some are buy-to-let, but definitely worth looking into it

I am thinking of sueing the solicitor for negligence, so thanks for the thread. It looks really useful!

Poppy9

When the council applies for planning permission for itself they put notices on street lamps, gates etc., not sure if they write to every resident.

You could also ask your local councillor for help. On that other thread is a planning officer who is really helpful. You could PM him to see what you legally have to do.

poppysarah

They write to affected neighbours ... and usually list who they write to.

katkim

poppysarah wrote: »

They write to affected neighbours ... and usually list who they write to.

The council notifies the neighbours, but apparently the applicant has to notify the owners and the owners might not be living there. Could be tennants. That's the problem and not sure how I can find out who the owners are without the management agency's help. Just got a reply back saying they won't. Might have to try the land registry if worse comes to worse. Dread to think how much time and money this is all costing me in the end.

Getting back to the council today to see what now - it's really frustrating.

Thanks for your help poppysarah! The other thread was an eye opener.

googler

I see planning applns all the time where the notified neighbour list is a location plan for the affected properties, and the list of names has owner/occupier with no personal details.

This one has a huge list with no names apart from businesses

Why's your council different from mine, I wonder?

planning_officer

Sorry to hear about your issues with serving notice on the occupiers of the other flats. Firstly, there is no legal requirement to specify names when notifying neighbours - you are perfectly entitled to just address each letter to 'owner/occupier' as you suggest, irrespective of what the application form states. My Council accepts that format. This would involve completing Certificate B on the application form to certify that you notified these other owners.

Secondly, your Council are also wrong to not accept the application if you have completed either Certificate C or D - they're the ones that refer to the ad in the local paper (Cert C is if you know some names but not all, and Cert D is if you know no names). If you have done this, that should be sufficient, and whoever it is at the Council who says that is 'not taking all reasonable steps' is talking rubbish. Your only other option is to wait 8 weeks from when you submitted the planning application and if the Council have not registered it by then, then you have a right of appeal and it will be decided by a Planning Inspector.

You may also wish to point out to your Council that the legislation does not state that you have to take 'all reasonable steps' - the legislation just states that you to have taken 'reasonable steps'. You can quote Article 6 of the Town and Country Planning (General Development Procedure) Order 1995, as it states:
"an applicant for planning permission shall give requisite notice of the application to any person (other than the applicant) who on the prescribed date is an owner of the land to which the application relates, or a tenant, -

(a) by serving the notice on every such person whose name and address is known to him; and

(b) where he has taken reasonable steps to ascertain the names and addresses of every such person, but has been unable to do so, by local advertisement after the prescribed date."

There's a difference in taking 'reasonable steps and 'all reasonable steps' in my opinion, and by contacting the management company you have taken reasonable steps.

Having said all that, I presume that you really do have to notify the other owners - do you not own the dormers exclusively if they form part of your flat?

Poppy9

Told you the planning officer was good:D:p