Retrospective Planning Permission

Fred_Brooks

Does anyone know the situation with selling a house that had an extension many years ago and there is no paperwork? Is there a time limit on things like this? I'm looking for a policy somewhere on the web - the house is in Hertfordshire.

Thanks.

silvercar

The last thing you want to do is notify the council.

You could take out an indemnity policy to protect your buyers against retrospective action. If you notify the council then you can't take out the policy.

General rule for planning permission that doesn't involve change of use, is that after 4 years the council can't enforce anything.

it may be that PP wasn't needed...

Fred_Brooks

Thanks silvercar.

I guess the indemnity policy might be the way to go - we have very little knowledge about what was done as it was my wife's late parents house and the work was done before she was around!

RLH33

silvercar wrote: »

The last thing you want to do is notify the council.

You could take out an indemnity policy to protect your buyers against retrospective action. If you notify the council then you can't take out the policy.

General rule for planning permission that doesn't involve change of use, is that after 4 years the council can't enforce anything.

it may be that PP wasn't needed...

Silvercar - you are wrong in your approach IMHO - you should not advise people not to notify the council as a starting point, especially as you have gone on to say that pp may not be needed.

Op - indemnity policy are a complete con, they will cost £200 - £300. However if you rang the Council it could easily be sorted out with a letter costing about £35 but in some Council's it is free.

If we are talking about a simple extension to a house, that has not been converted to granny annexe or anything, and you are certain that the extension was built over four years ago then there is nothing to worry about, it will have become unenforceable. If you want some assurance of this to give to sellers and their solicitors then you should ring the Council and tell them the background of the situation. They will probably ask you to write in explaining when the extension was built, how big it is (including sketch plans) and they will then write back saying either a) it did not need planning permission when it was built or b) that it did need planning permission but as it was built 4 years ago then it was unenforceable.

The belt and braces approach would be to submit an application for lawful development which is quite simple but you would need to provide evidence that, on the balance of probabilities, the extension was lawful development either because it didn't need permission when built, or because it was done over 4 years ago. Although you say you have no paperwork you can use affidavits from yourself, neighbours, friends etc who could verify that the extension had been there for over four years - dated photos etc would also help.

silvercar

If PP was needed and not obtained and the council refuse to put anything in writing (as some do) then an indemnity policy is the only hope of satisfying some solicitors and/ or lenders - particularly if a buyers loan to value is high.

People have lost sales because an indemnity policy can't be bought as the council have already been tipped off.

I agree that indemnity policies are a waste of time as they only insure against the council taking action, when we know the timespan for the council to take action has long gone. What they do do is reassure lenders that the risk is covered, so in that respect they have a value.

Richard_Webster

Need to separate planning and building regulation issues.

If it is more than 4 years old then should be immune even if permission would have been required, but if there was a permission for the original construction which took away the "permitted development" rights then construction would be a breach of condition which does not become immune until 10 years have elapsed. If the original planning permission doesn't have such a condition or the house was built before July 1948 then it will definitely be 4 years. Seller's solicitor should just tell the buyer's solcitor that it is more than 4/10 years old and as a matter of law that is OK - shouldn't need an indemnity policy for that.

Building Regs is a different matter. Problem is that there is no formal immunity period, so in theory a Council could take action for years afterwards. We know that in reality the chances of them doing so are extremely small, but buyers' solicitors want to see an indemnity policy for Building Regs and these cannot be obtained if the Council have been contacted about it so Silvercar is not wrong in what he says.

This is an example of the unreal artificial world that mortgage lenders live in - they want to see the most theoretical risks covered and solicitors have to waste time covering angles that a lot of buyers aren't bothered about.

silvercar

To add to what Richard Webster has said, if its building regs certificates that are missing, any buyer should be surveying properly to make sure that any extensions are structurally sound. An indemnity won't cover you for shoddy workmanship.

silvercar

Government info on building regs here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/BuildingRegulations/DG_4001372

This suggests that any enforcement action by the council must take place within 12 months or 2 years, depending on the part of the act used.

Richard_Webster

To add to what Richard Webster has said, if its building regs certificates that are missing, any buyer should be surveying properly to make sure that any extensions are structurally sound. An indemnity won't cover you for shoddy workmanship.

I agree.

Government info on building regs here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndC...ons/DG_4001372

This suggests that any enforcement action by the council must take place within 12 months or 2 years, depending on the part of the act used.

In practice that is right, but the case of Cottingham v Attey-Bower seems to have turned on the highly theoretical ability of a Council to obtain a injunction from a civil court many years after the breach. The CML Handbook actually asks lenders to state how far back they want solicitors to go in checking for breaches and some lenders say there is no limit on how far back we should go!

GDB2222

Fred_Brooks wrote: »

Does anyone know the situation with selling a house that had an extension many years ago and there is no paperwork?

Do you mean that there was never any paperwork, or has it perhaps been lost? You can check the planning history for the property and go from there.

Suzy_M

Your local council should have scale plans of the area showing all planning applications - approved and refused. Just call in to the council offices and ask to see it as a 'general query', you needn't specify which property you are interested in.