MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Lofty hold out for his dream job?

Trying_to_be_good

When I graduated back in 1994 I had to leave my graduate job. I was signing on for 8 weeks, before I got a Christmas temp job in the local Tescos.

I had an honours degree from a red brick university and I was in charge of stacking loo rolls (and multi-skilled to use the tills!). It gave me a reason to get up in the morning, and paid equivalent on the minimum wage plus lots of overtime.

The week before Christmas, I was given a letter saying I wouldn't be made permanent. I spoke to my supervisor who said it was because I had a degree. I argued that I would be staying until I had found a suitable post, which would be at least three months and possibly longer due to the timescales graduate employers work to.

They gave me a permanent post, I was still paid minimum wage, I troubleshot many of their departments and processes and gained invaluable experience of business as well as dealing with customers, for the extra four months I was there.

Show them what they ARE going to get (as a temp at first, if necessary), and use it as an opportunity. Subsequent employers were impressed I got off my backside and developed transferable skills, rather than signing on.

wishface

Trying_to_be_good wrote: »

When I graduated back in 1994 I had to leave my graduate job. I was signing on for 8 weeks, before I got a Christmas temp job in the local Tescos.

I had an honours degree from a red brick university and I was in charge of stacking loo rolls (and multi-skilled to use the tills!). It gave me a reason to get up in the morning, and paid equivalent on the minimum wage plus lots of overtime.

The week before Christmas, I was given a letter saying I wouldn't be made permanent. I spoke to my supervisor who said it was because I had a degree. I argued that I would be staying until I had found a suitable post, which would be at least three months and possibly longer due to the timescales graduate employers work to.

They gave me a permanent post, I was still paid minimum wage, I troubleshot many of their departments and processes and gained invaluable experience of business as well as dealing with customers, for the extra four months I was there.

Show them what they ARE going to get (as a temp at first, if necessary), and use it as an opportunity. Subsequent employers were impressed I got off my backside and developed transferable skills, rather than signing on.

maybe the person doesn't want a career in Tescopoly or supermarket managament in general. Can't say I blame him myself.

purplegaily

I went to Uni, got my degree, and whilst applying for my 'dream' jobs, got a job as a Temp. Never actually got the role of my dreams, but 15 years on, I'm happy where I am with a good group of friends at work.

Lofty should stick with applying for jobs in his dream sector, but find a way to earn money at the same time - at least if the hours are antisocial, he'll have time to go to the interviews!!!

Anyway - I've never been on benefits so wouldn't know, but if he's capable of working, and there are jobs available, then shouldn't he be trying to get work - isn't it called Job SEEKERS allowance - and not just the high powered job of his dreams, but something that will pay the bills in the meantime?? Surely it's easier to earn more than job seekers by having even a part time job.

ThinkingOfLinking

He should take the supermarket job. I'm not against people claiming benefits, not at all, but if you can get a job, you really should take that option.

For Lofty, it means he has a regular income, no gap on his CV (whereas periods of claiming benefits with no job would result in gaps on his CV whih don't look great) and there are always transferrable skills even in supermarket jobs, such as time-keeping, organisation, teamwork, self-management, etc etc.

It would also show potential future employers he's willing to get stuck in and doesn't see himself as above menial work etc.

I am waiting/hoping to go to uni as a mature student and have actually gone for a supermarket job myself as a way to make ends meet in the meantime, and also I see a LOT of students working in supermarkets. It's normal and it's positive.

chriswatts

One major thing I've learned over the years is that graduates should try never to pass through the doors of a job center!

From my experience I'd expect that as soon as Lofty enters their doors, the staff would be rubbing their hands with glee. Job centers are suppose to get the long term unemployed back into work, but this doesn't seem to happen and instead the staff seem to target easy cases just to get their stats up. Along with the recently redundant, the chances of Lofty getting a job in the future is far greater than someone who's been out of work for years. Thus Lofty will soon find himself being sent on every government scheme under the sun and also being forced to attend interviews for posts he is not suitable for. I remember when I was made redundant they sent me for a interview at Intel which I was unsuitable for and the manager just shouted at me!

For Lofty the job center should have a new name, that being Asda, Tesco or perhaps Addeco. He'll find that he has far better chances of getting his idea job if he takes a temporary job until he finds his idea job, since he can apply only for the jobs that are idea and not every job under the sun to keep claiming benefits. When doing temporary work I was surprised to find that I wasn't the only one with a degree doing that type of work. Also one thing I've noticed is that it costs more to stay at home than it does to work, this applies if your unemployed or if your just having a holiday!

The only I've found is that he might find is that some managers will take advantage of this temporary work and when he gets his first job he will be offered a lower salary than if he had come directly from university or a permanent job. I've found that I was offered £1000 less than someone with the same experience and qualifications and another employee that retired from the army was offered £4000 less due to what seemed to be the fact he was now unemployed and also the fact he had army qualifications and not civilian qualifications. But since he's been unemployed for sometime he'll probably find that he'll get offered this salary anyway due to the period of his unemployment.

jcraft

I found myself in a similar position in 2006, after I had graduated. I graduated with a degree in multimedia, and really wanted a career in TV. However its a catch 22 market, people wont give you experience without having experience already, and wasnt able to take a year out during my degree for financial reasons. I had worked part time in a supermarket whilst at Uni, so when i had graduated was forced to revert to full time work there whilst i seeked my dream job. Granted, it was difficult, as I worked unsocialable hours, even nights, to keep on the supermarket bosses sweet side, in case an interview came up suddenly, and i had to take an afternoon off!
I would recommend taking the supermarket job, as supermarket bosses are quite symphatic, they know you dont want to work in a supermarket all your life, and as long as you can comprimise if an opportunity did come along, they are ok with you.
Saying this though, it wasnt until i decided to become unemployed (unemployed for 6 months, lived off my final wage, didnt claim benefits) that i gained work experience at ITV, giving me more time to apply everywhere. Sadly I wasnt apprieciated there, but i am now in a job in media, using my Uni skills, and couldnt be happier.

Soubrette

wishface wrote: »

That phone in was ridiculous. As usual, the typical ignorant radio 5 demographic fell into the predictable mindset of labelling the guy as a scrounger. People that think like this have the government in clover, they've fallen hook line and sinker for the propaganda spewed by the media on behalf of the state. Noticed all those adverts recently about benefit fraud (which has been at negligible levels for a few years now) 'we're watching you' - where is the advertising campaign against tax avoidance?

What should happen is the government and the state and the edcation system should help this guy use the skills he's learned to get a job. Why on earth should he get a rubbish job for a rubbish wage? How does that help anyone? Why should someone's life amount to shelf stacking? The whole 'paying your way' mentality is a joke. The system we have right now needs to change and people who buy into the capitalist mindset are only prolonging the inevitable. Does anyone really believe there is some kind of honour in taking such a job in this (or any) situation, in lowering one's expectations of life? There isnt at all.

Benefit fraud is illegal - tax avoidance isn't. Whether or not it should be is another debate altogether.

The dishonour of taking benefits when you are fully capable of work is that you are taking money from the tax system instead of putting money in. This means there is less money to pay out to people who may be in genuine need.

Two people with the same qualifications going for the same grad level job - one has spent 18 months on the dole and one 18 months shelf stacking. I know which one I would be inclined to employ, all other things being equal.

Sou

jaydub83

ceridwen wrote: »

Well....actually a valid point...particularly the bit:
"WHERE IS THE ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN AGAINST TAX AVOIDANCE?"

I believe tax avoidance costs the country a LOT more money than benefit fraud - well....sauce for the goose as the phrase goes....

I think you'll find that tax avoidance is perfectly legal so an advertising campaign would be a pointless waste of taxpayers' funds. And I seriously doubt a campaign against tax EVASION (the illegal form of not paying tax) would have even the slightest effect on those who chose to do so.

Lofty should absolutely take the job. Yes he's studied for a few years but that doesn't mean that the state or the public owe him his dream career. If you want to achieve your ambition, you work for it and you continue to do so until you achieve your goal. I have no problem with the dole paying people who can't work for genuine health reasons but those who can work must work otherwise it's a complete farce. Gaps on CVs never look good to potential employers unless the time has been used productively and skills learned and this is exactly what this job would provide him with, not to mention the fact he'd actually be supporting himself financially.

yeldarb

We've got to stop telling people this "go get a degree and you'll get a good job" nonsense. It's not a golden ticket. A degree helps you get a job but does not mean you'll get a good or dream job, or even a job.

Graduates go to university thinking they'll walk out into a job paying £25,000+ a year. This is just not the reality for the vast majority of graduates.

We are setting the wrong expectations. Graduates need to get on at the bottom of the ladder and work their way up.

Get over your inflated ego, swallow your pride and take the supermarket job.

pineapple

My very first job after leaving university with a degree in German and Russian was as a cleaner in a bingo hall. I lied about my qualifications to get the job (I pretended I didn't have any).
Frankly I think employers are more likely to be impressed by someone who has shown a work ethic rather than someone who is swanning around on benefits thinking the world owes him a living just because he has a degree. I think, in todays' climate, employers would understand. It's up to him if he gets pigeon holed.
But it's all about market forces anyway isn't it. His degree might be in a useless esoteric subject. A degree in itself doesn't entitle you to anything.